DIPLOMATIC  DISPENSATIONALISTS

Maurice M Johnson
Los Angles
January 21, 1958

Now here's an editorial in the magazine called ... well, the theologs call it "Bibliosac." It's a Long word the other side of "Biblio encyclopedia" and so forth. It's the official theological publication of the Dallas Theological Seminary, founded by, the seminary was, by the Late Lewis Sperry Chafer. He's regarded, still is by I think most of the big posted pre-millennialists, as being one of the ablest Bible teachers of the last 50 years. His book on "Grace" I've heard referred to more times by more men as being the finest work they know of, single work, book on "Grace". And before he died he finished his series of volumes on ""Systematic Theology" which was highly regarded by those who believe anything like Biblical Dispensationalism, and think of distinguishing God's various economies.

Now Lewis Sperry Chafer.... you go down to the Bible Institute, you go to Chicago Moody Institute, you go to similar evangelical pre-millennial preacher or school and ask him if they think the writings of Lewis Sperry Chafer are God honoring, Christ centered, and probably in the main they would say, in the main, ""Very fine, excellent." McGee down at the Church of the Open Door sat under Chafer. And William Orr, over here at the Union Church organization of his, told me and Wayne Allen that he used to attend there, that he counted the five years the high spot, I believe, of his life, the five years that he sat tinder the late Lewis Sperry Chafer.

Well anyway now Chafer here has an article on Bullingerism. Listen to what he says, "Dr. William Bullinger was one of England's greatest Greek scholars, who nevertheless, went far a field at times and certain interpretations of the Scripture. On the basis of due authority, his position however, that Dr. Bullinger was very reversed before his death such as the heretical thing he had invented. Still as these teachings have been put into print, they have claimed the thinking of minds of like tendency. It has become common for a preacher or a teacher to be classed as a Bullingerite, by those who wish to imply that the man thus classed is an extremist in Dispensational teaching. Yet it is to be doubted if those who employ this term can give a worthy analysis of that which Dr. Bullinger taught ."

Well that's certainly my experience. I've been called a "Bullingerite" I'm sure one of the reasons that word is popular is because it starts off with probably more noise than the sputnik, "Boo". That'll strike them before you ever get into the subject. "Well if he's a Bullingerite, I'm going to beware."

Well anyway, now Lewis Sperry Chafer said this -- I've said similar a good many times, but he was a widely beloved and highly regarded theologian. I had the privilege of meeting him personally and leading the singing, doing solo work in two Bible conferences in 1919 and 1920. In 1919 I was with him in a two week, ten day Bible conference in Buffalo, New York. Was with him in a two week, ten day Bible conference in Cleveland for awhile, and gave me an autographed book and so forth. I remember now some of the things he said to me way back there.

Let me get to this now. It is to be doubted if those who employ this term, "Bullingerite," "can give a worthy analysis of that which Dr. Bullinger taught. There is no such thing as a complete system of truth which Bullinger produced. His most extensive work is the Companion Bible, which contains so much that is invaluable that one can scarcely afford to be without, do without." Now that is the eminent and widely respected Lewis Sperry Chafer, Dallas Seminary. "It So happens at the present time that some are classed as Bullingerites who are in no way related whatever to or in any sympathy with the claims of Dr. E. W. Bullinger. Such [? ] untruths should not be observed by any person unless it is thoroughly understood that these things are actually true and the person who "Makes the claim is prepared to demonstrate that the things are true."

Now his own co-laborer, and one who, when he first went to Dallas, Texas, was Chaferís assistant when Chafer was acting pastor of the Scofield Memorial Church. My old roommate in Moody Institute, fellow mate quartet member, and song leader who led the singing for me, I was evangelist in Several meetings, Harlin Roper Ė been pastor now for twenty something years, of the Scofield Memorial Church. Harlin Roper to this day ... I heard it just when I was back East this Last time, when asked about Maurice Johnson, "Yes. He's a Bullingerite, whether he'll admit it or not. He's a Bullingerite." Roper went from assistant pastor (we've already referred to what I said) to pastor after Chafer said, " I have to resign. I cannot go on with my seminary work and continue as acting pastor here." And so Harlin Roper was given the position and has held it ever since. And Chafer gave a fair warning about nick-naming.

Now what does it make to you, most of you, whether I'm a Bullingerite or not? Except it be, that I hope and pray, I know that every unspoiled Christian wants me, wants every other Christian minister and every other Christian to believe what he believes because he himself has checked up on it. Maybe he first heard it from Balaam's donkey, or some modern donkey, but if he checked up like those men in the city of Samaria heard from that formerly adulterous Samaritan woman whom they had known their whole life. She left her water pots and the Lord Jesus by the well and went into the city and said, and see a man that told every thing I ever did. Isnít this the Messiah?" And the testimony, invitation was so convincing that they came out because of what she had said. But, when after they had heard Him for themselves, they said," "Now we believe, not because of what she said, but because of what we ourselves have heard."

So I want to believe everything that I find that the late E. W. Bullinger taught that I believe is according to the Word of God. The Late E. W. Bullinger ... I have his Companion Bible; I lost one copy" and brother Ed Stevens bought me another one, and dedicated it to me with a very gracious word in the front I read it again the other day, brother Ed. But Bullinger's Bible, they didn't even put his name in it, Companion Bible. So far as I know, and I'm not scholastically qualified to give an expert opinion" but so far as I know I would say that Bullinger's most extensive work was his Companion Bible "which contains so much that is invaluable that one can scarcely afford to be without it." Now I wouldn't quite agree with that last, because I think one can scarce afford to be without no book but this one, or can well afford to be without all of them so far as ... but any way, Chafer would say the same about that.

Bullinger taught the absolute verbal inspiration of the Bible. I believe it, God help me, I believe it. Bullinger taught the [?] Bible account of creation. I believe that too. Bullinger taught the trinity of the Godhead. believe that too. Bullinger taught the virgin birth, and the sinless Life of Jesus of Nazareth, and His vicarious substitutionary atonement. I believe that too; his bodily resurrection. I believe that too. His bodily ascension to the glory.

I believe that too. Bullinger taught that the church which is Christ's body is not Israel, that the church which is Christ's body is not the kingdom. I believe those too. Everyone of those things. So far Talbot, and McGee down at the Bible Institute, and Charlie Fuller, and M R DeHaan with the Grand Rapids Radio Bible Class, and Theodore Epp of the Back to the Bible, that Baptist preacher from Lincoln, Nebraska, and Billy Graham (so far as I know, I'm pretty sure; Billy Graham claims to be a pre-millennial Bible teacher, believes in the restoration of Israel), all of those men believe what I've just referred to that Bullinger taught, and he taught it beautifully and clearly and very intelligently, I think, I mean with scholarship too.

Bullinger taught salvation by pure grace apart from any works that Adam, man do. The Bible Institute claims to teach that consistently. Moody Institute, Chicago where I went. Lewis Sperry Chafer of course taught all of those things that I mentioned. And the seminary in Dallas teaches those. E W Bullinger taught, and so far as I know" and I have never seen it myself in his writings, I under stand it was in one of the issues of his magazine entitled '"Things To Come'", it's in maybe more than one issue, he's taught at one time that the physically dead man is sleeping, and he went on to teach virtually what the Seventh Day Adventists teach, virtually cease to be in an absolutely unconscious state. He does not teach that consistently in his Companion Bible, though he has some, I think, very shady and I think incorrect things commenting on the book of Ecclesiastes and so forth.

But Bullinger taught in the personality of the devil, the personality of the devil, He taught eternal everlasting conscious punishment for the impenitent The Bible Institute, Orr teaches down there (as far as I know), and Moody Bible Institute, Lewis Sperry Chafer, the late president Dallas Seminary, Fuller Seminary (as far as I know), Charlie Fuller himself, Theodore Epp, M R DeHaan, Billy Graham, teach that too. Are they Bullingerites? No. No.

The late E W Bullinger taught that the commission, often called, without any Biblical authority, the "Great Commission", Matthew 28, verses 18,19,20, and Mark 16. Bullinger taught that those so-called "Great commissions" or that so-called "Great Commission" is not the commission for the church which is Christ's body. H A Ironside ... by the way, I started ... H A Ironside believes every one of those things, believes every one (he's dead now), believes every one of those things that I've just referred to that Bullinger taught, which are true. Every one of them. And yet in his book "Wrongly Dividing the Word of Truth", he makes...

Now he's gone, departed this life, but so is Peter. I don't hesitate at all in the tight of the inspired record in Galatians the 2nd chapter, say that Peter was a hypocrite" walking in hypocrisy because the inspired Word tells me he did. And Paul withstood him to his face. It isn't because I'm contend... or assuming that I'm in any sense better than Peter, that I'm in the equivalent of the apostle Peter. That's not the point at all. I'm not the equivalent of Abraham, but I know Abraham was a contemptible coward when he told his-wife to lie to Pharaoh down in Egypt and say, "You're my sister" cause he's liable to kill me to get you."" And I remember when Abraham ... when he partially obeyed God he was wrong.? You say, "Who are you?" Well I'm a fellow that partially obeyed God Lots of times, I'm ashamed to say. But that doesn't blind me when I read ... when I've confessed my sin, and read the Word; doesn't blind me what God says about Abraham. It isn't ... it isn't a mark of spiritual humility my friend for you and me to say, "I wouldn't dare criticize Billy Graham, I wouldn't dare criticize Wait a minute" would you dare criticize David? Not on your own authority, not because of your own opinion. But when you read in the Word of God of his lusting after another man's wife and plotting to have her husband killed so he could marry her and 5q the legal father of the baby to be born, of which he was the father. When you read about that what are you going to think? ""Who am I? I wouldn't dare criticize David.'" 'Well don't! But let God do it. But when you find God doing it, what should you say? Amen. Thatís right. That's right.

But don't forget my friend, it's no more a proof, of spirituality for you to refrain from seeing that a man is wrong according to the Word of God than for you to refrain from seeing he's right according to the Word of God. How do I know that Charlie Fuller ever preaches any gospel truth? First! because I know something of what the gospel truth is. Second, I hear him occasionally, and have known him for many years. How do I know that M R DeHaan teaches a lot of Bible truth? First place, because I know a Little bit about that (lot that he preaches), and I hear him" read his books enough to recognize. And when I read from ... hear M R DeHaan saying some beautiful things I want to say, "Thank God, those are beautiful truths." Well I don't thank God that he hasn't the godly honesty and the godly courage to preach the whole truth and to walk consistently. Because he doesn't, he doesn't.

Now listen to this, from H. A. Ironside, "Wrongly Dividing the Word of Truth.'" And remember that I brought out that Lewis ... Ironside used to go once a month as a guest speaker and teacher to the seminary. That's the program, and they may still have it; I don't know. At the seminary in Dallas. They invited outstanding Bible teachers- like the late A. C. Gaebelein and the late Harry Ironside to come in and meet ... spend a month's lectureship to these theological students. Probably McGee sat under Ironside and under Pettingill and Gaebelein different times during the years he was there as a student in the seminary.

Now, Ironside believes all those beautiful truths that I've just referred to that Bullinger believed and taught beautifully, and taught consistently. But listen to what, listen to what Ironside said in his book that is. most popular among those who would rather refer you to this smear than face the ones that they falsely call Bullingerites and refute. It's a whole Lot easier for Bible Institute professors and others to say, "He's a Bullingerite. I'll give you a book that'll really show you. Get Ironside's book, Dr Ironside they'll say, Dr. Ironside's book "Wrongly Dividing". Right over here right down the street here, Plymouth Brethren book store. I don't know how many times somebody's told me they went into this Plymouth Brethren book store, this side of Main Street, and mention my name. "Oh-h-h," the old gentleman in there, probably I'll meet him in the glory; far as I know heís a Christian man, "you want to know what that is, you get ... you get the book here, Dr Ironside's Wrongly Dividing the Word-of Truth," and so forth.

Now I wouldn't ... I wish we didn't have to take up these things. I don't doubt for a moment that Nathan would have much preferred from many stand points to not go ... to David the king, and say, ""Thou art the man."" Charge him with a terrible immorality of which David was guilty you remember.

Now look please, Gaebelein ... the late Ironside says in his book "Wrongly Dividing the Word of Truth,'" what he felt of Dispensationalism. He says, '"The result here being that we need to be careful and not read into the Word of God ideas out of our own minds which are not really there. In doing this, some have ignored Dispensational truth altogether." He of course acknowledges that there is such a thing as Dispensational truth. And anybody but a stupid ignoramus or a liar will acknowledge of course, the economy, the dispensation, even the ages.

Nobody... there's nobody here that's killed a wooly lamb, male lamb of the first year on the tenth day, kept it till the 14th observing it, found it without spot and blemish, and then killed it, and took hyssop, and dipped it in its blood, put it over the top of the side posts of your physical door to save the firstborn from endless destruction. You didn't do that at all because you know that you're in a different dispensation. That isn't the dispensation of God today. It was back there in the days of Moses down in Egypt. That was God's economy, that was a part of the household management, the stewardship, Moses was the leader in it on earth. So you're a Dispensationalist if you don't believe in trying to do what Moses did down there.

We don't have for religious bases, reasons, you don't have baby boys circumcised eight days old in the temple at Jerusalem because you know that isn't God's economy, God's stewardship, God's household management for this present program and present day. So you're a Dispensationalist. Everybody is. Everybody is, certainly every Chri ... everybody for that matter is a Dispensationalist. They're a steward in some kind of economy with some kind of household management. God help us now to want to be right before God and positively right so we can stop the mouths of the gainsayers as We preach and live for and fight for the truth as it is in Christ. "Study to show thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, right dividing the Word of truth." Rightly dividing the Word of truth.  

My wife and I coming back from way back East this FALL, drove a Little bit out of our way up, otherwise out of our way, over to Enid, Oklahoma to make two visits on people that had written us from there, having heard me on the Mexican XEG station. One of them was a ... both of them are maybe ... one of them has been a Plymouth brother ... Brethren, or sister, sister for 40-odd years. She was a retired osteopath, quite an able woman. She'd been Listening and thought she recognized a Bible teacher of some soundness in me and wrote. We had a worth while  [ ? ]  before the meeting, and she had just finished reading the 4th, the 5th, the 6th, the 7th, and studying and answering questions of this Bible correspondence course.

Where's Thomas Ham? Hang your head. It's entitled Ambassador College Bible Correspondence Course, edited by that humble little fellow who'll admit that he's teaching the truth for the first time it's been taught in 1800 years. And this particular Lesson is Lesson No. 15. I just got this yesterday in the mail. This Lady mailed it to me from Enid, Oklahoma, "Here's How You Can Become God." That's Armstrong's teaching, see. "Here's How You Can Become God." Now is that God's economy today? Has he got a god factory down here on earth? I mean its headquarters in Pasadena. Think Iíll refer over the radio maybe to that god factory in Pasadena. Write Letters to the manager of the god factory. However Rome you know has factories too, they make saints. And if Rome can make saints, I don't see why one of her daughters over here with her headquarters in Pasadena can't make a god! Rome makes saints; in fact, Rome makes God too. They will get a piece of bread baked by a baker, and the priest ... all he's jot to do is pour "hocus pocus", ""Hoc est corpus meum Christi", and God's right there. That's what they say, their god, their little pastry god.

Now my friends, the difference between a diplomatic Dispensationalist, that's my subject this afternoon, I announced it, the difference between a diplomatic Dispensationalist in his work and Armstrong and Rome, is a difference in degree. Only. Because they're all trying to improve upon or imitate the truth. I jotted some statements down here that maybe I have here where I can find quickly. Do you think anybody ever became a Doctor of Divinity as a result of and because of denying himself, and taking up his cross daily? The degree Doctor of Divinity is an honorary degree, conferred upon a man because of achievement that is outstanding in the eyes of those who have the arbitrary right to confer. They confer an honorary degree upon them. Did anybody ever get a Doctor of Divinity degree as a result of denying himself and taking up his cross daily to follow the Lord ,Jesus? Did anyone ever get an honorary degree, any preacher, by hating oneself? Matthew 16:24, ""He that hateth his life, loses it, shall find it." Did anybody ever hear about renouncing yourself, renouncing yourself, or denying yourself? Did anybody ever get an honorary degree as a result of obeying the command in Philippians 2, "'Let this mind be in you which also was in Christ Jesus, who being in the form of God thought it not robbery or a thing to be grasped after to be equal to God, but humbled Himself, made Himself of no reputation, came down, and being found in fashion as a man humbled Himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross." Let this mind be in you. Anybody ever get an honorary degree, Doctor of Divinity, as a result of obeying that command? No. No. make yourself of no reputation so some college will recognize you and honor you with an honorary degree.  

My friend, the things I'm saying this afternoon of course are cutting, but what do they cut? Do they cut the now nature of any Christian? No! No. Here's a fellow that has gotten to this place in his Life quite-awhile ago. Any man that will use the title Reverend ... and I am ashamed to say I did for a few years, Reverend ... any man that will allow himself to be called Reverend ... I got a letter however today addressed Reverend Maurice Johnson, I got one the other day Reverend Doctor, Reverend Doctor; now I'm waiting for someone to write me His Holiness. Why not? Because the only time the word "reverend" is a title and name appears in the Bible is found Psalms 111:9, "'Holy and reverend is His name."

I got in the place in my life a good many years ago my friend where I had to believe, I do believe, and with increasing conviction, that the man that will allow himself to be called Reverend and then later to be promoted above that, Doctor of Divinity. You never find a fellow that was a Reverend for a Little while and got a D.D. degree going back to the little Reverend. That's left for God and the hoi-polloi clergy, not us D.D.

Now I know when you hear things Like that you think of some of the D.D.s you hear from time to time. That Doctor Fuller, Doctor Billy Graham, Doctor ... are you going to compare then with other men, or you going to compare them with the Word of God? Well, in the final analysis we'll all accept Godís measurements won't we? We sure will. We sure will. We can scorn and reject God's measurement now, and measure ourselves by other people and people one by the other. Paul says, "We're not of those that compare themselves with themselves."" Anybody ever get an honorary degree or call himself Reverend as a result of obeying John 5:44, or rather aren't they described there, John 5:44? Christ said, ""How can you believe?"

Some of you heard me say when that verse first jumped out at me and grabbed me, it really opened my eyes to some things. "I'm come in My Father's name and you won't receive Me. Whoever comes in his own name him you receive. I receive not honor from men. I receive not honor from men. How can you believe which receive honor on% of another, and seek not the honor that cometh from God alone."" And you know, if ... if Demas after he forsook Paul had said that, or if Balaam's donkey had said it, I'd have thought that maybe he Lost ... maybe he just got back into his donkey form but atilt used man's words. But the Lord Jesus said this, ""How can you believe which receive honor one of another, rind seek not the honor which cometh from God alone."?

Is it any wonder that men like Spurgeon was in the earlier days of his Life refused the title Reverend and wrote against it. I have his writings, here. D L Moody refused the title Reverend, was never ordained by men. Not that I endorse everything, I think Moody was a compromiser in lots of ways. But this is the day of grace. God uses His instruments. God used Aimee McPherson. Because every time Aimee used the finest of the wheat, God's Word, and it felt on good ground, you think it didn't sprout up and bring forth some spiritual fruit. it never brought up an Aimeeite though. Thank God, it never brought up an Aimeeite. When Aimee sowed the Word of God my friend and it found lodgment and germinated, brought Up some .. they brought up good fruit. And I had the privilege of meeting some of them that it resulted in later. Though they thought that she was the one that sowed the good seed in their mind and heart. Well that's God's overruling providence, He makes the wrath of men to praise Him. You think anybody aver allowed himself to be called 'Reverend", and Later on 'D.D.' as a result of being clothed with humility as we read, '"he clothed with humility"?

Now Ironside says here, "It is right here then that we need to be careful, and not read into the Word of God ideas out of our own minds which are not really there. Through doing this, some have ignored Dispensational truth altogether. Others have swung to an ultra Dispensationalism which is most pernicious in its effect upon one's own soul and upon testimony for God generally." Now I don't doubt for one moment, in fact I know that there is what I call ultra-dispensation.  But that depends altogether on whether or not my 'ultra" prefix is according to the Word of God. If I don't have the correct conception of God's dispensation then I might call you an "ultra" if you're very different from me, well I might even call you (what would be under?) a sub? I'm just a sub-Dispensationalist. I never have been called that yet though. I've been called 'ultra" 'hyper', but I've never been called a sub. Isn't that less than? I think that's less than.

"Others have swung to an ultra-Dispensationalism which is most pernicious in its effect upon one's own soul and upon testimony for God generally. Of these ultra-dispensational systems, one in particular has come into prominence of late years, which, for want of a better name, has been called "Bullingerism" owing to the fact that it was first advocated some years ago by Dr E W Bullinger, a clergyman of the Church of England. These views have been widely spread through the notes of "The Companion Bible," a work partly edited by Dr Bullinger, though he died before it was completed. This Bible has many valuable features and has been a help in certain respects to God's servants who have used it conservatively, but it contains interpretations which are utterly subversive of the truth. Some of Dr Bullinger's positions are glaringly opposed to what is generally accepted as. orthodox teaching, as, for instance, the steep of the soul between death and resurrection."' Now I think Ironside knew, I'm sure he could have known, that Bullinger taught so far as consistently on the subject of death, he did not teach soul steep. But, be that as it may, we'll go ahead.

"It is a most significant fact that white he did not apparently fully commit himself to any eschatological" " I think that has to do with things in the future, "position as to the final state of the impenitent," oh, he defined it, "most of his followers in Great Britain have gone off into annihilation." Most Of his followers in Great Britain have gone off into annihilation, that when you die like an alley cat. "And there's quite a sect in America who began with his teaching." who began with his teaching" "who now are Restorationists of the broadest type, teaching what they are pleased to call universal reconciliation." "Well that's A E Knoch. Not that ... "not that he began by studying Bullinger, I don't know that that's true at all. He's about as old as Bullinger. Bullinger died a few years ago, Knox still exists: he's not living, but he's existing; I'm sure he's dead in trespasses and sins because he denies the virgin birth of ... denies. the deity of Christ, denies the ab30lute sinlessness of Christ and His vicarious substitutionary atonement, and denies the fact of present salvation.

Don't forget that nobody that believes that death like Armstrong and the Seventh Day Adventists and the J.W.s, falsely called "Jehovah Witnesses"', and Otis Q Sellers, and Charles Welch, well-known extreme dispensation of England and was a contemporary of Bullinger, and ... well I mentioned ... and the universal reconciliationists, not a one of them believes in present everlasting life. Because they teach that man is breath and body so conjoined that he's a living soul. That man is breath and body" and when he dies physically he dies period. Therefore of course he can't be saved now" all he has is a hope of Salvation. And don't let them make you think they teach otherwise because they're lying if they say so. There isn't a Seventh Day Adventist, I mean who believes their doctrine, on the face of the earth who believes that they are saved now. I've had many of them tell me so until I press them. And I said, "You have salvation right now? You are a new creature in Christ?" "Yes." "Then you can never die?" "Wait a minute." In order to get rid of the Bible doctrine of punishment they have to change the Bible doctrine of what man is and the Bible doctrine of what Life, human life is, and then, what they hope for, what the Bible doctrine of death is in order to got rid of the Bible doctrine of punishment. Well that means that sooner or later they've got to come to the person Jesus of Nazareth who was this babe born in Bethlehem.

I don't want to surrender to the temptation to glory right here, but I had one of the times of my life the other day in San Luis, Obispo where I live. Doorbell rang, and I saw a rather distinguished looking gentleman, gray haired with a neatly dressed lady, slightly gray too, man was carrying a brief case, and both of them, each of them had a Bible, held right out in the open. I guessed right at first what they were. And the man started off. I won't take time now to tell you what went on, except after he'd started off just right ....didn't ask me if I wanted to listen, just started off. He said, ""Well, it's a beautiful day isn't it. But isn't it too bad that it isn't beautiful like this all over the world, and isn't it wonderful to know that one of these days God is going to take over this world government. You know here,"' and he opened to Revelation" "you know here the devil has been cast down, and he's been cast down, and you know he's going to have all the governments of this world in his lap; Lord Himself said so," and he went to that text in Matthew and a few other points. And I said, "Are you people of the Watchtower, Society?" "Yes." Then I started. I said, "Excuse me a minute. Let me go in and get my Bible."' ."And when I got my Bible I got their translation the New World" and then their book, "What Has Religion Done?'', and came back and ...

No, no, before I did that, I said, "Who was Jesus of Nazareth? Who was Jesus of Nazareth? Was He Christ?" "Yes." I said, "You mean He was Christ when He was born?" "Well, no, no, he was anointed at the river Jordan, you know.. He was ... you know the word 'christ' means anoint." heard that the word for 'anoint' is the same root word in the Greek for Christ, yes, but you say He was anointed to be Christ." He said, "At the baptism when he came out of the river. "I said "Do you." believe that Christ died for your sins according to the Scriptures, was buried, and rose again the third day according to the Scriptures?" He says, "Oh yes."" But he said, "There are a lot of people that say they believe that and don't. " I said, "Excuse me just a minute. Let me go in and get"... and I went and got my Bible and their translation and their book, one of their latest books, "What Has Religion Done?"

And I said, ""Now, you made a statement a moment ago when I asked you if you believe that Jesus the Christ died for your sins according to the Scriptures, was buried, and rose again the third day according to the Scriptures, you said, "Yes, but there's a lot of people who say they believe that and don't." I said, "That precisely fits you." I said "You don't believe that for a minute." Well that's the first time that I'd took the initiative, I mean in talking. And he said, "What do you mean?" I said, "I mean exactly that I asked you while ago remember if you believe that the baby born in Bethlehem was Christ, and YOU said, " No. He was Jesus, and he was anointed to become Christ at the river Jordan." And I said, "You do not believe that Christ died. You believe a mere human ...human, no more no Less, Jesus the man, perfect, sinless, but just a man, that He died." He said. Do you believe that Christ died absolutely?" I said. Absolutely yes." "He died as dead as a doornail." I said I wouldnít say that ." "Well," he said ... I said . "That depends on the definition of death." "Well," he said, "Letís turn here. I want to give you mine. Iíll come to the Bible." And he turned where do you think? Ecclesiastes 9:5, Ecclesiastes 9:5. And when I said, "Who said that? " He said, "Oh! You deny the inspiration of the Scriptures."

Now one reason I've taken this much time to tell that was that heís a Dispensationalist, that fellow is. But he "sub'd", and I donít know what else you could say. That fellow's a Dispensationalist. Another reason is that my wife said to a few [house, hours?] later when she was reading the local paper after it came to our house, afternoon paper, she said, "What did you say that maní s name was that came to the door?" I said "Olson." She said, "Look here. He's the head of the whole area visiting in San Luis Obispo to train house to house preachers." I wish that I had known that a little earlier. But he left, don't you forget it, he was shaking my dust off of his feet. When I stood at the door I'm afraid some of the neighbors heard him. I stood at the door and said, ""You're a contemptible coward. You can't stand the light of the Word of God. Don't forget I didn't send you off. It's the truth of God that ran you with your damnable anti-Christ doctrine." I gave a good many other things but ...

I might say this much to help any of you have a question to recognize that my indictment of him couldn't have been too severe. I read to him from their own book, "What Has Religion Done?" (that's about the name). "Jesus of Nazareth was not a religious hybrid, part human part spirit. He laid aside in heaven everything that was spiritual and heavenly. And came down in the womb ... transplanted in the womb of the virgin Mary.'" I said, "I asked one of your teachers here in this City in another home several weeks ago. Said, "Your teachers say the Jesus of Nazareth was not a hybrid," that means two in one, "spirit-human being," that's their language, "he wasn't a religious hybrid, spirit-human. He Laid aside everything that was spiritual and heavenly, and his Father transplanted his life into the womb of the virgin Mary. " I said, ""Since He laid aside everything that was spiritual and heavenly, then what was left to be transplanted in the womb of the virgin Mary? Since He laid aside everything that was spiritual and heavenly before He left the glory, then what was left for Him to leave? What was left to leave?" I said, "Did He have a flesh and blood body up there? You don't believe that."

Listen my friend, I'm bringing out this afternoon "before I get through I hope Iíll get to say some more things helpful along this line: the dispensation I believe in is the only economy that works. The dispensation, the rule, the government of God's house that I believe in is the only one thatís been working for 1900-odd years. And I'm going to prove it, give you overwhelming proof. It's the only economy, it's the only program, it's the only dispensation that is really working. It's the dispensation that Billy Graham believes in temporarily and superficially and God blesses that much of the truth when Billy Graham says" "I will not hold a meeting in a local Baptist church or a local Presbyterian church or a local Lutheran church, I'll hold a meeting only if the Christians of the community come together." Now that's approaching God's dispensation for today. God's dispensation for today is one church and the rule in that church of Jesus Christ ... "now Billy Graham doesn't let Christ rule in His economy. Don't think for one moment he does. Billy Graham and his committee and the preachers with him, they will no more let Jesus Christ be head of their campaigns than Talbot and Sutherland will allow Christ to be head of the Bible Institute. You think Christ's the head of that Mulligan stew contradiction down there? Now there's a lot of beautiful truth, and I thank God for the truth. Don't forget I said that, don't forget I said that. There's a lot of beautiful truth being taught down there, and I thank God for it! But it's a theological butcher shop where the living God, His truth is cut! You go down there and try to get anything about the headship of Christ. Did you get it when you were down there as a student?

"No" (from audience)

Wayne Allen, where are you? Did you get it when you were down there as a student? What were you told at the Bible Institute about the headship of Jesus Christ, the absolute living, vitally efficient, practical, lordly, head of the church which is His body? That's cut out! Well that's' quite something to cut out and still call your program "fundamental". The headship and Lordship of Jesus Christ isn't fundamental. ? .And my friend, don't think that be cause that's 30 shockingly awful that it can't be true. It's the shockingly awful truth!

First radio program I had over station larger than the little one in Glendale that I began on, why I had a few 15 minute programs on KNX years ago. But that was in kind of an exchange with a newspaper for Saturday advertising, once a week 15 minutes. But the first daily program I had was on the late ... now defunct KCN 1000 watt station, splendid space on the dial and got out fine. And I spoke years ago, 25 years ago on things Like this. I said, "YOU show me a Bible Institute, you show me a union revival meeting or interdenominational revival meeting or a union Bible conference or a communicant prayer meeting or a Christian Endeavor meeting, any such as that where there are different denominations represented in a sort of cooperative meeting, you show me any such meeting where the Lord Jesus Christ is recognized as head. Where those who love and serve Him, various preachers and teachers, can preach on any subject in the Word of God at that meeting." I said, "My friend, the Lord Jesus Christ has to take orders at every Bible Institute under heaven, if He took them. He doesn't ... He's not allowed to give them." The Lord Jesus Christ has to take orders if He were positively present in anything like, functioning in Billy Graham's revival meeting. Billy Graham is a Dispensationalist. Ultra ... well otherwise anyway, otherwise, "Sub" and something else because it's not God's program. What is God's program?

Let me read a bit more here from a well by the way, talk about God makers. '"Here's How You Can Become God," you know, Armstrong says that, "Nobody's born again now" because we read in John the 1st chapter, 12th and 13th verses, "As many as received Christ to them gave He the power, even to them that believe on His name, to them gave He the power to, become the sons of God which were born, not of blood nor of will nor of man, but of God." Then in John 3, "That which is born of the flesh is flesh, that which is born of the Spirit is spirit." And he says, "You're flesh, you know you are. You're going to die, all of us are. We haven't been born again yet. Cause when we're born again, we're born of the Spirit.'" And he says, "'So that's over in the kingdom. And you ...now that you're begotten," he said, that's all you can have now is a begotten life. And if you get that begotten life, why then with that begotten life, and he offers, describes it, now his boy Ted parrots his father's devil inspired stuff. That's like the little speck of life, germ of life, imparted to the mother so a begotten life will be there, but he says that begotten Life isn't born. [ ?]  I have that in tape recording of his radio stuff and his written mess, edited. Begotten life. All you can have is a begotten life now. But with that begotten Life, that little speck of spiritual life, you've got to keep the Ten Commandments perfectly and especially the Feast of First fruits and the Feast of Tabernacles and the Feast of Passover ...

Tom, I don't want to, but imagine Thomas Ham going up in an annual feast day up north in one of their meetings and speaking at one of those Feast of ... what? Tabernacles. Feast of Tabernacles. Sure he was up there helping keep the Feast of Tabernacles. Imagine that. And all you had, all you supposed to have then was just a speck of little begotten life. Rut you don't eat pork, horrors no. And donít, and don't , and keep the Ten Commandments, and after youíve Lived that kind of taw keeping, perfect life, especially tithing -- but the only place you can send God's tithe is Box 111 Pasadena, only place you can send the tithe is Box Ill Pasadena" and tithe is part of the law, and " if you loved Me,"' Christ said, "you keep my commandments," and if you keep the whole law and offend in one Point you're guilty of it all. Have you sent your tithe? If not, you're going to be annihilated. Isn't that their doctrine, Tom? Don't you think I ought to go and apply for a degree over there, Ambassador College?

But anyway, God makers. Now when you die, according to Armstrong, when he dies, he's going to die like a dog, and Mrs. Armstrong, sheíll die Like an alley cat, and stay dead, until the resurrection, and in the resurrection it'll be the birth. Well all it could be would be a still birth, wouldn't it. That's all it could be, would be a still birth... And that's the one part of their doctrine I'm strongly inclined to believe. I'm just strongly inclined to believe that doctrine. That all that's going to come out of the resurrection in the form of Herbert Armstrong will be one that's still dead in trespasses and sins. Like I said while ago, about Mrs. Eddy who said there's no sin, sickness, or death. Her followers say she passed on; I said, "I doubt not that she died in her sins and is waiting the resurrection of damnation."

Now listen to what Ironside said further in his book about Bullingerism. He said most of the followers in England have gone into destructionism and in this country a large sect has gone into "universal reconciliation which to their minds involves the final salvation not only of all men" but of Satan and all the fallen angels. These two views, diverse as they are, listen now, annihilation of the dead, no conscious punishment on the one hand and universal salvation on the other, Ironside said, "These two views, diverse as they are, are nevertheless the legitimate offspring of the ultra-Dispensational systems to which we refer.'" That is a contemptible tie. He doesn'.t prove anywhere that Bullinger's distinctive doctrine essentially leads anybody to deny the fact of conscious punishment. He said the Dispensationalism of Bullinger. That's a tie.

There isn't anybody that I know, now this is no boast except of the simplicity and power of the Word of God, and you can take it for a personal boast if you want to, but I give my heart, there isn't anybody in this part of the country in the last 25 years that has spoken out as loudly and has challenged as frequently any of these destructionists and universal reconciliationists to meet them in public discussion as I have. I had the late Keith L Brooks who wrote this booklet that I talked about here awhile ago, "Bullingerism", I had him come to a tent meeting where I spoke on Universalism. And he left early and sent a note up one of the brother's here (maybe it was brother LaForce), sent a note fir... said, "Maurice, I had to go. I hope you will contact me. You have the only answer that I know of to this universal reconciliation, and I want to help you print it." I stopped by one day to the fellow that I met when we were both Christian Endeavor workers, Marlin Jameson who followed me, or rather took the job at ... assistant pastor of the First Presbyterian Church of Hollywood after I had been offered it and didn't feel led to take it. He's a graduate of Princeton University and Princeton 5eminary, now a preacher in the University Bible Church out West Hollywood, has been for years. I stopped by one day to see him when I stopped by his place, and he said, "Maurice, have you ever put anything in writing on the subject of Universalism?" He said, "I know I heard you a few times when you were exposing, refuting Dr MacLennan.

MacLennan, his former boss, pastor of the First Presbyterian Church of Hollywood, [?] proceeded into the Bible Institute of Los Angeles, went into the universal reconciliation hook, line, and sinker, and taught in the Presbyterian pulpit out there that everybody including the devil and Judas are going to be saved. And I exposed him over the radio, and challenged him to meet me in joint discussion. Brother LaForce and Wilbur, wasn't it, or who was it went out there one night to hear MacLennan, and went up to him and said, right up to the platform right after he preached in the First Presbyterian Church of Hollywood. I have exposed this stuff because I studied humbly and prayerfully, and partly because I know of such damnable false accusations. We are being associated with a vicious state of ... bit of unfairness, to associate some of us, with even Bullinger for that matter, to say nothing of A E Knox and his destruction.

I want to just mention (maybe that was one of the statements I was going to show you) Ironside ... and I hate to say this because Ironside was used of God I'm sure when I believe God was teaching. God was teaching Ironside when he was outside of the denomination as I'll call to your attention in a moment. He was gaining a reputation for being a powerful Bible expositor and got a flattering offer to be pastor of the Moody Church of a new magnificent building seats 6000 in the main auditorium, Moody Memorial Church in Chicago. Listen to what Ironside says here. "People have ... people have never investigated Bullingerism and its kindred systems," people who have never, "will hardly believe me when I say that even the great commission," aha! whew, "that even the great commission upon which the Church has acted for 1900 years" and which is still our authority for worldwide missions, is according to these teachers, a commission with which we have nothing whatever to do, that has no reference to the Church at all, and that the work there predicted will not begin until taken up by the remnant of Israel in the days Of the Great tribulation. Yet such is actually the teaching. In view of this, let us carefully read the closing verses of the Gospel." And you have Matthew 28's statement" "Go ye into all the world and teach the gospel."

Now he brands that as very dangerous false doctrine, those that teach that Matthew 28 and Mark 16 are not the commission for the present church dispensation. H A Ironside in his book "The Mystery" and other writings refers to the late J N Darby more than any other one man, probably the brains, the theological Leader of what's called the Plymouth Brethren. Of this Ironside was a devoted member in which he was an apt student for years, in Oakland and ground.. Ironside has paid glowing tribute to the late J N Darby and his contemporaries C H Mackintosh and William Kelly and F W Grant as being the men God raised up to restore the all but lost truth regarding the church which is Christ's body not being the kingdom and the church which is Christ's body not being spiritual Israel, but that God was going to restore the kingdom to Israel in Palestine and Christ the king coming back. Ironside paid glowing tribute to those men. And he knows that J N Darby and C H Mackintosh taught clear as a bell that Matthew 28 and Mark 16 were not church commission, that they had to do with Israel.

There's a man who used to be a Plymouth Brother. Over here in ... I met him back in Evansville, Indiana, maybe the first time I met him, and studied the Supper together [ ? ] And I had some things like this then from C H Mackintosh. I've got some here, C H Mackintosh. I have here a beautiful work by C H Mackintosh. They told me at Moody Institute when I was there to get, if we had any money at all to buy books with, to get C H M on the "Pentateuch," C H Mackintosh's work on the first five books of the Bible. This is C H M's "Miscellaneous Writings." One of the most outstanding Bible teachers in the last hundred years, and most widely read by evangelical, pre-millennial Bible teachers. There's some Bibles at the Bible Institute in all probability, and other places. Ironside referred to him, yes, Ironside referred to him in glowing terms over and over and over again.

You read the last chapter in this book, volume number six, uh five, of C H MIS "Miscellaneous Writings"' and see what he says about the book of Acts period. He says the book of Acts Was undoubtedly the inspired record of the transition, the change from the Israelitish kingdom program to the church which is Christ's body. And he brings out that Paul dealt with Israel as a nation and preached the gospel of the kingdom through the entire book of Acts period, and then he went to dew first, all the physical miracles and Jewish ordinances were observed and profoundly observed by Paul. And it was not till the close of the Acts period before the full truth of the pure church program, God's present economy, present dispensation was given. And he says it was to and through Paul that, that dispensation was given as Paul says in Ephesians the 3rd chapter, "the dispensation of the mystery", what had been a secret before C H Mack... Ironside knew ... that C ... why according to Ironside's booklet here" C H Mís a Bullingerite. And yet I think he's a few years older than Bullinger. But the... [?]

I have a book here, J N Darby's "Notes on I and 2 Corinthians" and in this book J N Darby brings out beau... and Ironside compliments J N Darby more than any writer than I've heard him mention in all his writings. J N Darby, as being the man God used to bring back ... J N Darby, C H Mackintosh, as William Kelly, as George Muller ...

By the way, Armstrong, that rascal, Herbert Armstrong over the radio the other day, reading from George Muller, he said he was a great man of faith. He was giving some things on faith, and he said, "George Muller,'" he said, "you probably know of that man that had that wonderful orphanage in Bristol, England for so many years, that man, that wonderful man of faith." Boy! If I could've just spoken on the same radio immediately afterwards, and said, "Wait a minute! Don't tune out. I want to ask Armstrong a question. Did George Muller believe that you could only be begotten spiritually now, and die like an alley cat, and you couldn't get a new life until the resurrection? Did George Muller believe that Jesus Christ had a mortal body, and that if you, in your mortal body are nothing but a speck of spiritual life, live a perfect life, you will become a god in the resurrection? Yeah. Did George Muller teach any of your distinctive doctrine?" And yet he says he's preaching the truth for the first time these many years, and then has the nerve to come out and try to win people by referring favorably to George Muller recently.. That's the way these crooks do. That's the way these crooks do.

Look. In this book J N Darby says, commenting on God's program today, he said, '"You will notice that in the book of Acts period", and the book of Acts is the inspired teaching of God's dealing from the time of Pentecost till about 35 years later till Paul gets to Rome and officially preaches to the representatives of Israel there in Rome and then when they reject his message from the Old Testament Scriptures that Jesus was the true Messiah, savior, redeemer, king of the Jews, he said, "Well," Acts 28:26,-7,-6,-9, "Well did the Holy Spirit say go to this people, and say hearing you'll hear not, not understand me, seeing you'll see not. Be it known therefore unto you that the salvation of God is sent unto the Gentiles and they'll hear it."

J N Darby brings out here in his book "Notes on 1 and 2 Corinthians," he brings out here that during the book of Acts period, he said, "I do not believe we will find the gospel of the glory. We do find the gospel of grace." He said, the distinction is that the gospel of grace is God in Grace dealing with man. The gospel of the glory is man in God." I think that's a beautiful and Biblical distinction. The difference between the gospel of grace as such and the gospel of the glory. And that's when he's commenting on 2 Corinthians 4, '"If our gospel he hid... it's hid to them that are lost in whom the god of this world," the devil, ''hath blinded the minds of them which believe not test the light of the glorious gospel," or the gospel of the glory. He says a better translation would be the gospel of the glory. [ ? ] "If that gospel's hid," he said, "it's hid unto the lost unto whom the devil blinds their minds," and so forth. "Lest the glorious light of the light of the glorious gospel," the gospel of the glory, "should shine unto them."

J N Darby says, I think correctly, ... I'm bringing this out to show that his buddy and student, apt pupil, Ironside didn't dare say in his book in which he was trying to smear men in Chicago and others that he couldn't answer on the doctrine of water baptism and so forth, he tried to smear them but he didn't say Darby of course did not believe that the commission of Matthew 28 was the church. Ironside knew Darby didn't but he doesn't mention that. The Bible Institute knows, and probably the Plymouth Brother Bible book house man over here knows that but he doesn't say that. '"You want a book that'll It show what ex dangerous fellow Maurice Johnson is" Ed Stevens is, you jet this book by Dr Ironside, "Rightly ... Wrongly Dividing the Word."

In this book, J N Darby brings out beautifully on the covenants. He said the new covenant isn't for the church. He said it never had an old covenant. The Gentiles certainly didn't have the new covenant, he said they never had an old one. He said the new covenant is for the same nation that had the old covenant. I teach that, and I try to go on consistently with the new covenant supper and so forth.

I have a book here by Gaebelein. And Gaebelein brings out in his work on Matthew and in here that the commission in Matthew 28 is not for the church. It's the program that the risen Christ gave to the twelve apostles before he saved Saul of Tarsus and called him up to the third heaven and gave him revelations of things that Peter, James, John, Nathaniel, Bartholomew never heard of. And they never heard of them until Paul by divine inspiration and Spirit leadership taught them Was given to Paul to give the distinctive truth of the church which is Christ's ... every Bible institute that I know of that's pre-millennial teaches that! when they're on the subject of Paul' s unique ministry Gaebelein brings out beautifully in his comments on Acts. Gaebelein took up Acts, the late A C Gaebelein, the founder of that magazine so-called "Our Hope". He was ... why he and Ironside were Like that. Talbot in the Bible Institute here was delighted to have Gaebelein. You think Fuller would have been glad to be identified with Gaebelein, in a Bible conference? He was doubtless many times. And M R DeHaan. And Lewis Sperry Chafer had him once a month, give lectures to the students in the seminary.

A C Gaebelein says the book of Acts, begins with Jerusalem and ends in Rome. He said it's very suggestive. I think that is very suggestive. I think we're living today my friends when the church of Jesus ... when Paul is again in prison in Rome. Not his body, not his body, but worse than that, worse than that. At the close of the Acts period Paul's body was in jail, but from that Roman prison Paul sent out the glorious church epistles. Now his epistles are in Rome in jail. I mean in prison in Romanism all over this country, and various stages of Romanism.

"You're a Bullingerite!" What do you teach that's a Bullinger danger? What do we teach here? I teach my dear friends, believe that everything that is spiritual that's going on in Billy Graham meetings is what is going on by the new creatures in Christ who forget their denominational relationship that they may sustain at other times, names, the rolls that their names may be on, denominational rolls. They forget when they look up to the risen Christ and yield to the Spirit of God temporarily as they sing, 'Blest be the tie that binds our hearts in Christian love' and somehow or other, God helps them from time to time to forget their sectarianism.

Why I forgot I was a Methodist over and over again when I was at Bob Schuler's, thank God! I'm sorry I didn't forget all the time. But I forgot it often when I was down at Bob Schuler's! Like Lot in Sodom. I vexed my righteous soul at the filthy literature' at the filthy machinery and the episcopal form of government, the despotism. I used to hear Bob Schuler, and Bob Schuler's invited here and yonder being an outstanding example of a courageous man, I've heard Bob Schuler say, "Before I'll compromise my convictions and preach this damnable modernism thatís spawned in the German ... higher critical schools in Germany, university, Germany, seminary, before I'll preach, deny that my Savior was virgin born, that I was taught by my own mountain mother in West Virginia who got me down beside the pumpkin plant and she placed [ ? ? ] About that time some good old' Methodists would be saying, "Hallelujah [?] ".. Bob Schuler will say, "Before I'll compromise my convictions I'll resign as a Methodist pastor and I'll go out on the streets and sell [ ? ? ] But I have a right to speak I have a right to speak out against the intrusion of modernism. As a Methodist pastor," over 25 years at that time, "I have never failed to take up every penny assessed me by my church." That meant the pennies that bought damnable literature that he's supposed to be against. That's the Methodist government. 

Talbot, when he first came to Los Angeles to the Bible Institute, been down there very few weeks and I ran into him one Saturday afternoon. Hello Maurice," met him in Chicago years before, "How goes ? Bob Schuler? "Bob Schuler's pastor of the big modernistic, I mean Pussy-footin' Methodist church building in Paris' Texas when Talbot Was pastor of a little independent Congregational there. Very small. They knew each other to he pastors in that small little city, Paris, Texas. Bob Schuler came out here, Talbot went north, Presbyterian and around, and built that Tabernacle, Hamilton, [?]  and then out to the Bible Institute. And Talbot knew that I had been assistant pastor to Bob Schuler. So he said, "How's our friend Bob Schuler?" Well I said, '"How do you think he is, as big high salaried respectable pastor of a large Methodist congregation? You don't think he's walking what he talk, as an evangelical do you?"' "Well I've said for years," Talbot says, "'I've said for years that no man can be a successful preacher in a Methodist church without compromising." And he's had Bob Schuler over and over and over again, and again had him as the keynote speaker in the cornerstone ? multi-millionaire, million dollar seminary down in Buena Park. Bob Schuler was the speaker. A diplomatic Dispensationalist! ? this is our program today. Bob Schuler has a reputation among a bunch of ignorant boobs and some people that ought to know better, as being a courageous evangelical I know he got his job as. a big shot by pussy-footin' in the Methodist church. And beguiling people who say, '"I wouldn't dare criticize," see. Moaning by that, a fall for and swallow the saying of men who don't walk, where the Word of God says, Paul says, "Mark those which W-A-L-K, Mark those which walk as you have me for an ensample, for many walk, of whom I've told you often, they are the enemies of the cross of Christ, whose God is their belly." The way that seems right. Diplomatic Dispensationalists.

What is our Dispensational program now? What's the economy, what's the rule now while Bob Schuler is speaking here in the Church of the Open Door? Bob Schuler knows that C.O.D. and the Bible Institute stand for eternal security of the believer, once saved always saved, you can't possibly he lost spiritually after you're once born again. Bob Schuler told me one time white we were talking about this down at ... when I was at Trinity Methodist, he said, "Johnson, that's the rottenest doctrine ever came out of hell. Why if I believed that ... why you can go out and live like the devil!" That's a good Methodistic position you see, I mean a good allegiance to the damnable false doctrine. He was getting after me for having taught in my Bible class, been teaching every night in my Wednesday night Bible class down there, had about 250 doctors, lawyers, merchants, so on, young people. And I was teaching in Genesis, he called me into his studio ... study one day, and said, "Johnson, ol' Doctor," what's his name, a retired Methodist preacher from Canada living in Southern California, he said, '"he came in to see Me yesterday, or the other day, and he's very much perturbed over you. He said that you're teaching rank heresy here, that you're not a Methodist at all." I said, "Is that so."

Now I'm ashamed mind you that I was ... didn't know the truth of the one body and the headship of Christ and the sin of sectarianism then. I didn't t know what God's economy for today was, but I was saved and some real love for the Lord, and some little knowledge ... I was realty parroting to some real degree I'm ashamed to say, I was realty parroting A C Gaebelein and C H Mackintosh on "The Pentateuch." I got that at Moody you know and I was parroting, and some of those people down at the Bible Institute, brother Ross and his wife I think, used to think that "Our young assistant pastor Maurice Johnson, it's Just phenomena! the knowledge he has." If you'd have seen me in my room, I'd open up C H Mackintosh, William Kelly, F W Grant "Numerical Bible", and boy I'd just rehash and rehash. Now I wasn't dishonest, I'd been trained that way. I'd been trained that way, I was a merchant. And not all retail merchants manufacture all their articles do they?  No. I was a rehasher and a plagiarist. I'd been taught how to do it.  

"But this preacher," Bob Schuler said this Methodist said, "he's speaking heresy. He's not a Methodist." I said What is it that you refer to?" Well he said, "You're teaching that awful doctrine eternal security." I said, "Brother Schuler, we never used that expression once." "Well, once saved always saved.," "I've never used that expression once, brother Schuler." "Well, the impossibility of apostasy." "I've never used that once." I learned all those theological shibboleths early you see. I said, "I've never used that once." He said, "Well if you're once saved, always saved." "I've never used that once.,' "Well," he Said, "you know you believe it." I said, '"Here's what I've been teaching brother Schuler. I said when I got on the ark the other night in Genesis the 6th and 7th chapters, I said, "When God told Noah to build the ark and build it according to the plans that God gave him and Noah did it. And then the Lord said, "Come thou in the ark." " I said, "God was evidently on the inside wasn't He, because He. said, "Come". And then when Noah came in and all the rest, well then the Bible says the Lord shut the door." And I said, I said, "Now. let's read that verse that says, "When the Lord shuts the door, no man can open it. And the Lord opens the door, no man can shut it." Now I said," and there was the Methodist steward and the old retired Methodist preacher and several others around there, Methodist 'officials, and, I guess 250, "and I said, "Now if some of you be believe, if you like to believe that .when Noah got inside he got a hold of the knob of the door, if they had one, and put his foot up against the door, face it, and said, "Now we've got to hol-l-l-l-d on faithful to the end. Mrs. Noah will you please get a hold of me and so hold on for your dear life. Shem get a hold of your ma. Now Mrs. Shem you get a hold of your hubby. And Japheth you get a hold of Mrs. Japheth. Ham you and your wife get a hold. Now bring up Dumbo the elephant and get him to put his trunk around and let's hol-l-l-l-l-d on faithful to the end.," " I said, "if you folks want to believe that, well I can' t stop you I guess, but I don't believe that. I think Noah believed when the Lord shut the door that he was safe inside. That's what the ark was built for." And I said, "I think that Noah just [?] around, he went out and looked up that one window above, and he looked up toward God." "That's the only place he could look from that ark cause there was no elect ... DeMille you know when he had a Noah's ark movie, he added more window around it than most Mississippi boat ... (what?) sightseeing boat you know, Cecil B. DeMille. You know that's his, that's the movie concern, that's the religious, that's the interdenominational. They got to, ought to have [?] , 666 doors, and that many windows, but not the ark.

Well anyway, I wasn't a Methodist down there, I'm ashamed I worked with them. I was preaching in some of the Methodist program by giving some truth that wasn't Methodist junk, and I should never have done it. And I quit doing it! Thank God, when I saw what a wicked thing it was to take the holy Word of God and build a sect with it! with a part of it. To take God's dispensation and be a diplomatic Dispensationalist; Teach all I could get by with in the Methodists. Not that I run against them and have some criticisms from time to time. But I didn't know all the truth, I didn't know all of God's dispensation.

Let me just (cause I've got to stop of course pretty soon; I wish I didn't have to but ...), one of the books here that James Cox ... many of you have met him, he was out here, he's now in Virginia. Where's Eddie Billmeyer? Didn't I see him here? Oh' he had to go to work maybe. Is he here? He was here this morning, just come from Maryland. Eddie Billmeyer has been enjoying, he and his wife enjoying the faithful ministry of our dear younger brother James Cox. Graduate of Hardin-Simmons Baptist College in Abilene, Texas, and he was in his second year at the largest Baptist seminary in the world, Southwestern Theological Baptist Seminary in Fort Worth, and Bob Thompson and I met him, went to his little living quarters where he and his wife and two little ones were staying. Well, two years later after battling and fighting and sweating and getting false help from some of his professors and other students, he came out! He's a valiant good soldier of Jesus Christ now.

He gave me some of his theological books. Three books by one of the most outstanding theologians in the Southern Baptists; man's still living I think, Walter Thomas Conner. "Revelation and God, An Introduction to Christian Doctrine", Southern Baptist teacher and preacher, theological professor in the big seminary. Listen to what he says here on page 316 about the church. He says, "'Where men have fellowship with one another, church life is a possibility. In the very nature of the case then the members of the church must be regenerated people." Must be. All right, when a bunch of regenerated people get together to have fellowship, what are they? Automatically Baptists? No, no. Presbyterians? No. Church of the Open Door? No. What are they? Often the Baptists and others when we talk against man made organizations say, '"Well I read in my Bible, '"Forsake not the assembling of ourselves together." I say, "I read that too. Hebrews 10: 25." I said, "It's written to the Baptists?" "No, not ... " ," It is written to Methodists?" "Nope." Baptists Iíll quickly say, "Nope." "Was it written to Presbyterians?" "No.?'. "Well to whom was it written?" "Believers in Jesus Christ.'" "That's right. Well, when they obeyed it, those that got the epistle right back there when it's first written and delivered, when they obeyed it, what were they?" Huh? It was written to believers to not forsake the assembling of themselves together. Now when they assembled themselves together what were they? They were the believers assembled weren't they. They were the believers obedient. They were assembled believers. Just imagine thinking that when they obeyed the Word of God to assemble that automatically they have a different name. "I'm a Johnson now, and when all of us Johnsons assemble in a kind of a home meeting, they become Perkins, you automatically become hop-skippers."

God help us my friend to hate these damnable sham we read in the Word of God, "Folly is set in great dignity.'" I imagine that one or two or three or four or five or six of you that think that I am uncouth, because the folly that you swallow, you have it set in great dignity. I read in the Word of God, "As a jewel of gold in a swine's snout." That's a quite a graphic figure isn't it. That's no place for a jewel to be put in a pig's nose because the thing the pig does with his nose primarily is get in the slop and the mud. "Imagine taking My fair jewels," God says in Ezekiel, and He says, "and making them the member of a harlot!"; and strengthening the world's organization.

When I began to see what I was doing as an interdenominational singer and young people's worker and Bible teacher and then preacher and evangelist, I quit ... I had been elected, after I had resigned from Bob Schuler, I was elected at that annual conference Los Angeles District evangelist of the Southern Methodists. And I got more calls before the conference adjourned, I got more calls than I could fill the whole year! I was an embryonic Billy Something.

And in the third meeting that we had, second meeting we had, my wife and I up in the ... our only Southern Methodist church in Sacramento' right downtown Sacramento. we were having quite a lot of children, they were my boys and girls work. They were having a Little fold-up organization down at the park there three blocks away every day at noon, got permission from the city, and my wife was playing and I was singing through a megaphone and inviting people to meetings. And in the afternoon I got things printed for boys and girls in the Bible book you know and did competition and a lot of the neighborhood boys were coming in and girls and becoming interested giving them Bible truth and some of them were professing conversion. I never tried to work a stampede either. I hated that with children work. I'd seen that but I didn't do that. I had enough fear of God in my heart then to not let one little child start and then the crowd follow. I've seen so-called evangelists work that shenanigan many a time.

But anyway, one particular night I was lying awake in my ... up in the preacher's, house, in the parsonage, and I got to thinking about the boys and girls and I saw some of the faces in my memory. They'd been there the day before and that day, so-forth, and I thought, "Oh, some of those precious children I believe are being saved and others maybe are going to be, and just probably, just probably' join the Methodist Church, and I know what horrible modernism is taught in the Sunday School literature.""

... know a whole Lot more now than I did then, but I said, '"Brother Schuler, before I go on with this as the Director of Education, I'll resign. I'll have nothing to do with this anymore. Well I'll, I'll go."' He called me back in sometime later, said, "Johnson, [?] ." Well he said, "We can' t put in an other church because we're a Methodist church after all you know. But I suppose the bishop in the conference won't get after us if we just teach the Bible. Now if you want to get some Bible outlines for the teachers, we'll let you."" That's what we did we kicked out every single stitch of the Methodist official graded literature. Though Bob Schuler continued to take up collections to pay for it in his educational office.

I was lying awake weeks later up yonder in Sacramento thinking [?], Oh God, what am I doing, and my wife?! We're doing all we can to reach boys and girls in this community. And we reach them with Thy beautiful gospel and sweet beautiful gospel songs, teach them Bible verses, and with the understanding that if possible we'll get them to join the local Methodist Church. And then be brought into these Sunday Schools to teach what I refuse to have anything to do at Trinity Methodist. And here I am. Oh God! I'm telling you I didn't sleep very well the rest of that night. And I left that meeting preaching I think as I never had before up to that time, and I wrote letters to the preachers and their officials over the state of California and one in Arizona saying, "'I'm sorry, I cannot keep our engagement, I'm through with this program.'"

My friends, those were great days. I wasn't disobedient to my imperfect vision, those days. Do you think I was shamed when I saw that I was a diplomatic Dispensationalist? I was giving some of God's truth to get folks to join the Methodists because that sweet, thinly veneered modernist preacher and his modernistic Sunday School teachers, lifeless, not a one them believed in salvation by grace and the pre-millennial coming of Christ, and my wife and I believed both. We both been to Moody Institute and gotten other teaching on the subject from the Bible too. And there we were taking some of God's beautiful dispensation, the dispensation of God's truth, and we were going over here and being diplomatic Dispensationalists!

I was a D.D., hmph. They never conferred the degree on me, the devil did. Well, the devil does it other places too. But I mean I was a diplomatic Dispensationalist. I was using one of God's dispensations. I thought to be more effective to reach boys and girls and sinners Out in the park and all. I saw what a horrible thing it was to be a D.D., D.D. And there's not a D.D. in Southern California, United States of America, the world today, Doctor of Divinity, with a degree Doctor of Divinity that isn't a diplomatic steward in the things of God. He'll speak this way when he's with the Presbyterians. Billy Graham is a contemptible D.D. When he's preaching with the Archbishop of Canterbury on the platform in England, Billy Graham knowing that the Archbishop of Canterbury teaches that you sprinkle holy water and they say that put the sign of the cross over it and fit the Anglican church too like they did mama Rome, and they bless the water, the Anglicans bless the water, and then the priest, and they call their preachers priests, and that Anglican priest, the Archbishop of Canterbury and those under him, were sprinkling holy water and make the sign of the cross ! over a little baby's head, and that washes away original sin. And Billy Graham knows that's what that damnable cult teaches on that subject. I didn't say everything in it was damnable, not everything in a beer joint is damnable; they may have some buttermilk sometime, and soda pop, and water, so forth.

They used to have when I was a boy, a young fellow, legitimate saloons, illegitimate I mean, legally as to state laws, national laws, legitimate saloon, the best one, brother Ross now you can say "Amen" to this, the best saloons way back there, good-better-best in the skunks nest, the best saloons back there served free food. And I used to hear, I used to hear that the best food cooked the best, most any eating place in town, you could get in this big, fine saloon, free if you were a patron. Some of those things in those saloons were good, good food, but what would they use it for? To catch more to make beer guzzlers and drunken sots and alcoholics and winding-up derelicts and decrepit and so forth.

This Baptist, Southern Baptist,  [?]  Billy Graham is a contemptible D.D. -- diplomatic Dispensationalist. I have articles here, and I'll just refer to them now, I have articles here from John R Rice's magazine immodestly called "Sword of the Lord". John R Rice is an outstanding and one of the ablest Bible teaching expository evangelists in the country. He's doing a lot of writing now of course out of ... (what's that north of ) Wheaton, Wheaton, thank you. .And he quotes often, carries Bob Jones Sr's articles too and Bob Schuler's articles and so forth. John R Rice is exposing the Billy Graham campaign New York City, showing how Billy Graham had on his official committee of sponsoring and all, the rankest, modernist union Theological Seminary and others, the most outstanding rank baptized infidels on his official program. And had men like Norman Vincent Peale, that smooth, oily 'serpentine' "peace of mind" advocate, had him on the platform over and over again, and had him lead in prayer. And Norman Vincent Peale and his Marble Collegiate [?] in New York City got more new members from the Billy Graham campaign than any other church! Nice thing isn't it. And Louis Talbot and McGee after, when the question referred to them, '"What about Billy Graham compromising with the Modernists in New York City," they flew" I believe it was, flew separately to New York City to personally view and they came back here and gave him a clean bill of sale. Didn't you hear things like that? Both of them did. An awful thing.

The Fundamentalist field today is split and re-split, it's shaking, don't tot anybody kid you my friend. The Fundamentalist field today is plenty rotten. The founders of modern Fundamentalism like A C Gaebelein and H A Ironside in earlier days and Lewis Sperry Chafer and those men, and Machen of Princeton Seminary who was kicked out for his splendid stand, those men like Charlie Fuller, and Louis Talbot, McGee, those fellows are contemptible "yes, yes" men ! compared to those comparative giants of fifty years ago. John R Rice still has some [?] some steel in his spiritual spine: he's exposing Billy Graham's compromise.

I have several editions here of the "Beacon" put out by this Presbyterian from New Jersey. What's his name ... Carl McIntire., And Carl McIntire likewise exposes by calling names, factual, of the Billy Graham compromise there, now in the San Francisco compromise. What an awful mess is the sponsorship in San Francisco now with the Billy Graham to open in April.

Fundamentalism -- diplomatic Dispensationalists! diplomatic Dispensationalists! They all believe in dispensations, they all believe in an economy, they all believe in a rule in the house of God, but whose rule, whose head, whose order? They all believe ... listen, all of them believe in a measure of, a degree of, and a counterfeit of the Dispensationalism that I'm glad to be identified with. And that's the dispensation of the Spirit of God. That's the fact that today in this present dispensation believers in Jesus Christ are the circumcision which worship God in the Spirit, rejoice in Christ Jesus, and have no-o-o confidence in the flesh. We know if we read our Bible and rightly divide it that every believer in Jesus Christ has been crucified with Christ, not like Him. Buried with Him by a baptism which is identification not imitation. Buried with Him by ... baptized into His death. And buried with Him by baptism unto death, and quickened and raised together with Him. And put in the church which is His body. And the members of the church which is Christ's body can never, never, never function as Methodists. They can never, the members of the church which is Christ's body, can never by the wildest stretch of the imagination be Presbyterians or be members of the Church of the Open Door. The members of the church which is Christ's body could never by any stretch of the imagination be a Fundamentalist or a Modernist or a Neo-orthodox. Members of the church which is Christ's body are now creatures in Christ. And the only truth we can ever give in its most succinct and its briefest, most marvelous single statement is Paul's in Philippians, "For me to live is Christ,"" Christ.

I have here a pamphlet, and I've got another printing of it, won't he necessary to find it, but I get it out every once in awhile from various publications, the late R A Torrey and his co-laborers in jotting out the Montrose Library, the "Christian Fundamentals". I think there were several hundred thousand dollars invested, back when a dollar Id buy something, in the printing and the getting out of those books ... those studies, several volumes, and the money was paid by the Stewart brothers, the multi-millionaire oilmen that gave the initial money for the Bible Institute, and so forth. And in that collection of studies on ... oh, all the great what they call fundamentals of the faith. Writers, outstanding expositors, England, and various parts of the country, this country, were asked to write on this- that, and the other subject: the virgin birth of Christ, the deity of Christ, inspiration of Scriptures, evolution, and Roman-Catholicism, and pre-millennial coming of Christ, restoration of Israel, salvation by grace, and, oh down the line, it's quite a library in condensed form.

And in that collection of the late R A Torrey and those laboring with him, asked the late Bishop Ryle or Ryle (R-Y-L-E), Bishop of Liverpool. Here he's listed, the Right Reverend, by the Right Reverend. The name of God Almighty is reverend, and this guy's gone beyond that according to this, Right Reverend Ryle. And the subject of this, this pamphlet, and it was printed by Ryle ... I mean in Torrey's "Christian Fundamentals", distributed free to preachers all over this country I understand. "The True Church," Ryle was asked to write on the true church. And in that he brings out beautifully that the true church is the body of Jesus Christ composed of all born again people and of nobody else. The church of which Christ is the living vital head. And he says, "This is the church that is doing the work of God in the world today." And yet these publishers put on the front of this a great big imposing steeple house. It's just a Mulligan stew that characterizes their method.

Now the whole gist, the whole theme, thesis of this study is that the spiritual church is the church that's doing the work of the Lord in the world today, Then why put that steeple house on the front? And why put those blasphemous titles that he got from the sectarian, Right Reverend? It's just my friend the way the devil does a denaturing and adulterating even what beautiful truth they do give.

Some of you listen to some of these sectarian preachers because they give beautiful truth. I got a pretty, sweet, cutest Little grandson oh that I ever had born to my son and his wife. Jim, I saw it the other day, that precious little grandson of mine, Richard Nathan. And suppose his mother 'd gone to the store (she hasn't done it, gone off and leave him, daddy working, suppose in a year or two now) and left him in playpen. And I would be a few blocks away at a filling station and find a couple G.I. representatives I mean. And they'd say, '"We're looking for a man," I'd introduce myself maybe, "We're looking for a man. Have you seen this? " Show me two views, Wanted for kidnapping, very smooth operator." "Why I saw that man awhile ago walking right down ... I was going to come get some gas and look ... I saw him walking down by the home ... he's walking right down by ... and I saw the baby out in the playpen." Suppose that I'd turn, quick get in, drive right down by there ... I'd see him come up to the playpen, give some oranges. I'd say, "Aw shucks, he's nice. He's nice. I don't? And I'd forget all about the probable reason.

My friend! no man on the face of the earth is guiltless who will take great portions of the Word of God to win a crowd whether to Christ as savior or not if he denies the headship of Jesus Christ, and the unity of God's people, and the Sin of sectarianism. Do you really believe, you who profess to believe, do you believe that sectarianism is listed properly by the Spirit of God in Galatians 5 "works of the flesh" with adultery and murder and drunkenness? Do you believe it or not? I believe it? That's why I left my easy-going, popular, Fundamentalist position and relationships. It's because these truths my friend gripped my conscience and they a moved my faith.

If I hear McGee give some beautiful truth, I never forget who it is that's butchering the 'Word of God! When two of the brethren, maybe both of them are here, went to visit McGee. Yes, you did Adair, Larry Hankammer. Two of them went down to hear McGee one Wednesday night. I saw the subject he was going to speak on, I heard him on the radio announce it. I said, "I wish you'd go if you'd have liberty; he's going to speak on it; I heard him on the radio announce it. I said, "I'd wish you'd go if you heave liberty, and listen to. him, maybe beautiful truth they said in Matthew I believe, talk to him." And he aye some bet g and the difference between the church and Israel. I wanted them to hear him on that. And then they went up to him, brother Len Baker went up to him at the and commanded him for those beautiful truths and things." "But how can you teach those things and be in an organization that men make,"' and so forth. He was then still in the Presbyterians. And he says, '"What are you?" "We're just Christians." "I know. What church?" "Just members of the church which is Christ's body." "Well I know who the Plymouth Brethren are. I've had Lots of experience with the Plymouth Brethren." "We're not Plymouth Brethren." [? ] Well, if you were have corporate testimony today," that means from the word 'corpusí or body, the bodyís the church, If you're trying to heave a local testimony of a corporate nature today, you're working against God because He prophesied in the lost days there would be confusion." Isn't that about exactly what he said?

(from audience) He said, "You're trying to we had quite a lengthy conversation and reading in the Scriptures. He says, "You're trying to do something God is not trying to do."

In other words, God has quit. God has quit Backing tip His Word were Paul sa id, "Brethren, I beseech you by the name of the Lord Jesus Christ that there be no divisions among you, but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and the same. spirit and the same judgment and you walk by the same rule," I Corinthians 1:10 and Romans 12 and 30 forth. "Whether I come, get out of this jail or not, you Philippians, and get to come to see you or not, I want you to know my state, and I'm praying that you stand fast in one mind, in one spirit, striving together for the faith of the gospel and in nothing terrified by your adversaries.'" Now all that's dead letter according to McGee.

(from audience) He said, "God said there would be apostasy in the Last days."

He said, "God said there would be apostasy in the last days." And that's the position Ironside took in the latter part of his life. I just want to touch this, I want to touch this hurriedly. I have a booklet here by Ironside. A booklet here by Ironside, "The Teaching of the So-called Plymouth Brethren; Is It Scriptural?" And in that he quotes from Strong the theologian who got out Strong's Concordance and Systematic Theology. And he said Strong was ridiculing the Plymouth Brethren. At this time Ironside was Harry Ironside.

I have another booklet here, "Open Letter to Dr Harry Ironside, Litt D," written by an old Plymouth Brother buddy of his. And in this a copy of a personal letter to pastor of the Moody Memorial. This man says, "Brother Ironside, are you the same man that used to teach so beautifully on the Lordship and Headship of Christ and the sufficiency of the Scriptures, and so forth? Are you?" And he went on to say, "'Now you're Dr Ironside, Litt. D., pastor of Moody Memorial Church."

Well Ironside, in this early study, when God was teaching him, he wrote this, "The Teaching of the So-called Plymouth Brethren", and he refuted Strong's argument. He said now Strong says in his article that the Plymouth Brethren seem to be against all forms of organization in religion. But he said it is inherent in the human nature the will and the desire to organize. And Ironside brings out beautifully, he says, "Certainly it's inherent in human nature the desire to organize. What isn't inherent in human mature that's sinful?" And then he goes on and brings out, "Isn't the Lord's organization sufficient? Isn't the name of the Lord sufficient?" And he gives beautiful argument, and later accepted the pastorate of the Moody Memorial Church with its name, its incorporated property, its membership, and then he began to wear the name Dr Ironside, Litt.D.

And I have an article here, I'll just call to your attention, written, resume, review (or maybe it is a resume) of a book written by a fellow with Ironside's permission called, "Dr H.A. Ironside, Archbishop of Fundamentalism," Archbishop of Fundamentalism. I believe forty years ago Ironside would have had his arms cut off rather than consent to a thing like that. Because he taught way back there when God was teaching him, he taught then that sectarianism was an awful sin, and that the name Jesus Christ comprehended everything that a Christian was and could do in his Christian life.

This Baptist here, listen to this Baptist man, eminent Southern Baptist theologian, "In the very nature of the case then the members of the church must be regenerated. We may have a religious organization composed of men and women not regenerated, but we cannot have a Christian church." I'd ask him, "Are there any unregenerate people members of the Baptist church?" He would say in a moment, "Yes." "Well then, what is it? Will you call the Baptist church a Christian church?" "This shows that the center of the life of the church must be Jesus. Christ.'" Amen. "Men are drawn together because they are drawn to Him." Amen. Does that make a Baptist out of you? No! John the Baptist had some disciples, but when John the Baptist looked toward the end of his ministry, he said, "I must decrease, He must increase." Now this Southern Baptist theologian is teaching the Word of God here. This is God's dispensation he's meting out now, he's now a steward of God's manifold grace and wisdom. But in his practice he's a Baptist theologian.

My friend, do you think that the only people who had a big reputation in God given religion, distorted, were those in (and didn't walk that way), were those in the days of Christ's earthly ministry of whom He said, Matthew 23, "The scribes and Pharisees sit in Moses' seat" well that's God-given seat of authority in religion" "The scribes and Pharisees sit in Moses' seat, all things whatsoever they bid you observe and do, that observe and do, but don't do what they do because they say and do not." I asked a moment ago do you believe they're the last-religious leaders who talk one way and walk another? That's why Paul was inspired to say, "Mark those which walk," walk. "I beseech you that you walk worthy of the vocation wherewith you are called, with all lowliness and meekness."

This man goes on. "Men are drawn together because they're drawn to Christ. He's the central magnet." All right, I ask him now, if I was over there, student of the seminary, believe what I do now, I'd like to ask, "Christ is the central magnet. Now when people are drawn to Him, are they Baptists,? If you say yes, then Christ isn't the central magnet in any other denomination. So then they're without Christ at least so far as any authority, any leadership, and any vital presence." And that' s what some old fashioned, cantankerous "I'm a Baptist" teach too. I've met them in Arkansas, I've met them in Oklahoma, "I'm a Baptist! and I said I'm proud of it. I'm a Baptist and I'm proud of it." Well I sometimes say, "Well I'm not a Baptist and I'm prouder of it. I'm a Christian."

Now listen my dear friend, there are lots of dear children of God in the Baptist organization. I've got a pamphlet here, "Unconverted, Unregenerate, Baptist Church member, by an eminent Southern Baptist preacher in Kentucky that' s over a big radio from time to time.

I have a booklet here by the late, outstanding, eminent, world-renowned, Fundamentalist, W B Riley, than whom there was no more highly respected and properly respected Fundamentalist, organizer in all the world, He did more than any living man I think, I mean any man that's lived in the last 75 years, to stir up evangelical born-again people in the big denominations to the danger of modernism inside their denomination. And his Bible conference work. I traveled with him to different Bible conference, It's just a little tune heister and soloist. But I sat with him and ate, with him and talked with him as he had such men as A C Dixon of Spurgeon Tabernacle, London, pastor there for nine years, had him it; Bible conference. The late Mark Matthew, pastor of the largest evangelical In world, First Presbyterian, Seattle. And the late George Guille, Moody Institute Extension Department. And James M Gray the Dean. And William I Pettingill, and H A Ironside, and Lewis Sperry Chafer, and R A Torrey, and ... I forget others. I led the singing and did solo work in Bible conference work with those fellows, usually planned by or led by this organizer W B Riley, pastor for many years of the First Baptist Church, Minneapolis, Minnesota. He's the one that called Billy Graham to his bedside which proved to be Riley's deathbed and said, "I believe the Lord's put on my heart to ask you to take the presidency of Northwestern Bible Training and School." And Billy Graham was then a promising young Youth For Christ speaker and so forth, and beginning a little evangelistic work. Billy Graham took the work you remember, later resigned.

W B Riley in his book here on "Rethinking the church" tells about a big careful investigation and checking up on their church membership role. He says, "We have sought to receive into -membership those who have experienced the new birth and have fully and forever put their trust in the Lord. And yet on coming to this long neglected but now magnificent campaign of commissioners, after months of visitation, questioning, and cultivation, we find a full one fourth of our membership totally dead." Now he was an eminent man because he was pastor of such an enormous Baptist Church in downtown Minneapolis. pastor there for forty years, forty-five, -six years before he died. My, whew! he's a big fellow, took what a big church. And here he tells us about it.. "We found 25% of the membership dead, another quarter showing but slight; signs of life, a third quarter producing feeble fruit, and only one in four measuring up to even our lifeís standard." What kind of a dispensation was that?" Was that Godís economy that had a bunch of dead timber and Mulligan stew like that in it? And all of them were members of that big church, and he was a pastor of such a big church, therefore he's a big fellow, see.

My friend, it's knowing these things, and Iíve studied these things because (for some reasons), because I don't want any of you people to be misled, you who look to me in any sense at all as a servant of Christ, and minister of Christ. And I wanted, to see for myself my friend whether or not God was really blessing these men, whether Heís taught them differently. They know better, this man Conner knows better than to b e a Baptist. Listen to him. "The active agent in bringing the Baptist Church into being is the Holy Spirit." Is that the active agent in bringing the Baptist Church into being? Was that the active agent that brought this big Northern Baptist Fundamentalist church into being? Twenty-five of the members absolutely dead, another 25% showing little signs of life. And 25% showing a little bit of' fruit, and only 25% measuring up even to the standards of Riley and that other bunch of men. Was the Holy Spirit the active agent in that church [?] No! of course not. "The active agent in bringing the church into being is the Holy Spirit." Was that First Baptist Church of Minneapolis a product of the activity of the Holy Spirit? No ! Ten thousand times no. "As the spirit,"  get this now please, and Iím going to close pretty soon. "As the Spirit constitutes the individual a Christian by bringing him into right relationship with Christ, so He constitutes a company of individuals a church by bringing them into Christian fellowship."

Now that's the dispensation of the mystery. That's the company of new creatures in Christ that are neither Jews nor Gentiles, bond nor free, but all born in Christ. Here, this man in his teaching, is a good steward of the manifold wisdom of God. He's teaching now, he's functioning as a Dispensationalist in God's dispensation. But he's a diplomatic Dispensationalist when he got his job and maintains his chair, name and all, as professor of theology, Southern Baptist Seminary and a member of a mixture. "As the Spirit constitutes the individual a Christian by bringing him into right relationship with Christ, so He constitutes a company of individuals a church by bringing them into Christian fellowship." I believe that a 100% without any mental reservation. I believe that all that makes a local church a Christian church is for new creatures to be drawn together by the Spirit of God. And I believe when they're thus drawn, they are the church which is Christ's body in that place.

The church... "Where two or three are gathered together in My name, there am I." Was that enough in the early days in order for the church to do the work the Lord had for us to do? That was enough. Did they do the most efficient piece of Christian work that has already been done in the history of Christendom? Yes. Even the sectarian historians say that, that the first generation of the church was the most efficient.

"A church then is not simply an organization it is an organism," Thatís the eminent theologian writing books for the Baptist student.

Now let me just draw some of these things if I can very, very hurriedly. It's been too long and you've been very patient. Listen. The true dispensation, Godís program, a Bible Dispensationalist is a saved man who disperses Godís truth in right proportion to build the right thing to give glory to the one and only Savior. Nobody that's using God's Word to build anything but the church ... but individual Christian lives, Christian homes, and the -Church which is Christ's body is a Biblical Dispensationalist, or a steward of the manifold wisdom and riches of God. I'll repeat, nobody who is using any of God's Word to build anything but individual Christian lives, Christian homes, and the church which is Christís body is a Biblical Dispensationalist.

Every Baptist preacher under the sun is a diplomatic Dispensationalist. That's the best you can say about them. He uses God's economy" enough of it, over here, and leaves out what he doesn't want in order to build an unbiblical institution. He's a Dispensationalist, certainly, because in the realm of Christendom, he's working with part of God's Word and with the name of Christ and some of the work of Christ, but he's a diplomat.

And that, watch now a moment, Louis Talbot in his personal teaching, usually he teaches beautiful truth about the one church. I have one of his statements here, I won't take time to find it now, in which he says in his magazine "Kingís Business falsely so-called because it isn't the Kingís business. A little bit of ...but anyway. He said, I was on a bus the other day and some body asked me, my fellow passenger, "What church you a member of ?" And I said, "What church could I be a member of?" I got it here in black and white from Louis Talbot. "What church could I be a member of?" How many churches are there? I am member of the church which is Christís Body."

Now why do you suppose he said that? Because at the moment he just decided to be a steward of Godís simple beautiful truth. But usually heís a D.D. , a diplomatic Dispensationalist. He was dispensing, he was a good steward at that time, rather he was a steward of God's good things. "What church could I be a member of? How many churches are there? I'm a member of the church which is Christ's body." You think he would teach consistently over the radio and teach at the seminary (that has his name now) and the Bible Institute, you think they would teach down that there's only one church you can he a member of as a Christian. Only one! Boy, it would bust that thing wide open if they would teach that down there, with the Word of God.

That's why I'm so welcome down there. I was invited you know, 1925 to be assistant pastor of the C.0 D. I preached down there, Sunday night, when they had their own radio, preached the regular ... preacher on the platform. Sure. I've stood there and sang solos, I've worked in Christian Endeavor, I was vice president of Southern California Pre-millennial Prophetic Association, down there met once a month, largest association of pre-millennial Bible teaching preachers in the world they said then. I was vice-president one year. Isn't because I was never known down there, but they'd rather have a bunch of rattlesnakes down there than me.

You go and ask if you can rent the auditorium. I got pictures here, paid ads, of a lady, lady officer in the "Salvation Army"? so-called. I won't try to ... yeah, got it right here. "General Evangeline Booth", now Talbot said over the radio several years ago, he said, "Now there's one of Satan's trinities," or "Satan's most effective trinity's being propagated over the radio by a preacher. The trinity, Satan's trinity, is denying water baptism for this present dispensation, denying the Lord's supper, denying organization. That's Satan's trinity. "Hear tomorrow night 7:30 PM General Evangeline Booth international leader of the Salvation Army. "Wonderful" is her subject, Church of the Open Door.

Now Talbot knows this lady preacher is out of the will of God'. When he's on the subject of lady preachers, he says he's against it, God's Word's against it. But, well, anyway. And Talbot knows that the Salvation Army does not believe in water baptism or physical supper for this present dispensation. Why did he have this advocate of two of the devil's trinity? Because he didn't believe what he said at all.

When Talbot goes to a Bible conference, when he's down in the mission field, going around as a Lord Chesterfield, expenses paid and taking a lot of pictures, come back, be admired at his shows and all, "I saw Bethlehem", one of his pictures, "I have saw so-and-so." When Talbot goes down there, he's a diplomatic Dispensationalist. If he's visiting a missionary, his brethren in the Bible Institute, and went out on the Baptist board, Talbot doesn't say a word against the Baptist position. If he's visiting a missionary while on the Presbyterian board, he doesn't say a word against the Presbyterian dispensation or stewardship or economy or household management. If he's with a Fundamentalist that's independent, he doesn't say a word against that. He's a diplomatic Dispensationalist.

And the same way with these radio preachers. And the same with Fuller out at the seminary. One of the young fellows that was taking post graduate work there, already a university graduate, taking post graduate work, in seminary I think, but postgraduate. He said one of the professors at Fuller Seminary on the subject of baptism said, "Now, young men, my position is rather fluid on the subject of water baptism." Fluid, you see. You put water out on the ground, you know, and that fluid will conform. It will stay for a little while on the highest part of the ground it's poured on, but in a little while it will diplomatically go down there. Fluid. ''My position on water baptism is rather fluid." Well that's the position you should take doc while you're hired by the Fuller Seminary outfit because they have Presbyterian theologians there as professors and they have Baptists and I don't know what else. 

Shortly after this, Talbot had at the C.O.D., a couple of Sundays after this, he had Louis Bauman, teaches triune immersion, immersion three times and wash your feet. One Sunday, a lady who doesn't believe in water at all, no organization; three Sundays, two Sundays. later, another big guest, Louis Bauman, teaches immersion three times, and so forth. Diplomatic dispensation. "Our dispensation while the lady preacher is here is we won't say a word, we' ll rule out God's economy about woman preachers and we'll rule out what we pretend to believe is the truth about water and the supper, because that as diplomatic Dispensationalists is to let this dear, outstanding, worldwide official General Booth, General Evangeline Booth, General of the Salvation Army -- a lady, a girl, a young woman."

But I must draw toward a close. I say this and stop. My friend, the only thing God blesses in any community, in any home, in any Life, in any home, in any gathering of Christians, is whatever of the dispensation of the mystery they recognize and have a part in. 'And that's the dispensation or the rule or the economy in the church which is Christ's body. The Mystery not known before, it has no physical buildings like God's earthly people Israel with a temple in Jerusalem, the tabernacle [?] it has no visible head because Christ is head over all-l-l things to the church which is His body. How many things are left out [?]. Imagine claiming that Christ is head over inter-denominationalism. What a double-minded, or triple-minded, pussy-footing figurehead that would be. Who's the head of denominationalism? The god of this world. Christ is the head of just one church, my friend.

Oh, you have a question? I may have raised a lot that I didn't answer. You've been very patient but ... these truths, oh, my, my, we need to go into them.

  What's God doing today? He's building the church, saving souls and building the church, and He wants that church to demonstrate the fact that Christ in the glory and the Holy Spirit indwelling us, and we vitally united to each other. 

I haven't said a word against the spiritual work that Louis Talbot does from time to time. I haven't said a word against the spiritual work that McGee or Fuller does from time to time, have I ? Not a word. I've commended that. Called attention to the fact of their diplomatic Dispensationalism.

(comment from audience)

I believe I have... someone gave me this. Iíll take just a moment. They had that conference they've been having for a few years. I tried to go, thought I could, but couldn't, years ago back in Lawrence, Kansas. Select representatives ... I don't have it here but I can call attention to what it is. I don't want to take but a moment' it's so late now. But they came from various colleges, universities all over the country, I suppose seminaries too, gather once a yea there, and this heading is, "Methodist Youth Rally. Church Policy," for Methodist schools and so forth all over the country.

"There some 3400 Methodist students adopted a statement at the close of the six day meeting here January in Lawrence, Kansas," and so forth. They go on to say, "The students have been condemned in this conference as the uncommitted generation. We admit the truth of the designation, but protest the implication we're uncommitted either through choice or indifference. To the contrary, most of us are deeply concerned over our lack of commitment, and many of us are actually searching for that cause for which we can offer unreserved allegiance."

Oh, I hope that some of these young fellows, I expect they're basically tired, maybe mentally tired" and some of the others of you, older, I hope there's been things brought out here this afternoon that has caused you to say that the fight, there's need for good fighting, the issues have been so obscured and obliterated, messed up, and oh! the work of the Lord is a magnificent thing. The students said, "We're not committed. It's true. But we don't know what to be committed to." Listen to this. "The students said that the church which chides them for their un-commitment proves to be a major stumbling block toward commitment." That's a keen, that's a keen and incisive statement. They said' "Although the church offers herself as the only institution worthy of their allegiance, it is herself a primary deterrent." Well the Mulligan stew of organized Christendom today, Fundamentalism included, is so uncertain on all the outstanding issues regarding what the church is and what is the church's program that I don't blame these keen minded university students for this indictment. "We may be silent and withdrawn but we're not easily misled." Well that's egotism there in the main. "The church as she stands now is not, we believe, worth our lives."

Mike, Roman Catholic for 27 years, you decided that the Roman Catholic Church wasn't worth your physical life when it didn't give you spiritual life. Is that right? Is the church you now believe in and rejoice in, you think it's worth your life? It's worth your life, and I think to same degree, Mike's throwing away his life that he might find it as a member of the body of Christ. "'The church as she now stands is not, we believe, worth our lives, but the mission of the church obedient to her Lord is."

Oh-h-h-h-h, wouldn't I have loved, or brother Ed, wouldn't you have loved to have spoken to that crowd of students after they brought up those resolutions permitted to talk to a few minutes about the church, about the church that is obedient to her Lord. About the church that is organized, institutionalized, and headed by the Lord to do what He wants it to do. These Methodist young people are probably evolutionists, post-millennialists, and think that the church is the kingdom, and... (end of tape)

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