MAURICE JOHNSON
RELATES HIS DEALINGS WITH


 
CHARLES HALFF

"CHRISTIAN JEW" RADIO PREACHER

Alhambra, California
May 18, 1958

Years ago I was in, in Tulsa and Richard told me there was a young Jew that was deeply mixed in, mixed up with Universal Reconciliation, everybody including the devil and Judas going to be saved. I don't remember for sure what all Richard told me about him then, but he said, "I hope you'll take up some of those things this afternoon." And the young Jew came out, Charles Halff. And I took up some things publicly and then talked to him some. Later on Richard told me that he had left, he said, "I have no confidence in him at all. I think he's a very dangerous fellow."

It was some few years later, two or three or four, that I heard he was on a radio, and I heard a program, "The Christian Jew", San Antonio, heard him a few times. And then I mentioned to Richard again. He said, "Yes, I think he is a rascal."

Then a year or two later I heard him here on KGER. I heard him give some fine things. All that I heard him give was fine except maybe some money and the name "Christian Jew". He claimed to be undenominational; I heard him speak against denominational churches. And I heard him mention various radio programs on his radio he said up in New York, Buffalo, New York, radio station program here and there. "And I'm going to have to go off some of these stations if you dear friends don't give some of the Lord's money or send money. I know you will," and so on and so on. "And this is supported by no organization, no denomination, so forth, just by faith, faith-work," and so forth.

And last, somewhere last year, maybe early fall or winter, I got a letter from a Mrs Wynn, Oklahoma City. And I was impressed with the fact that she brought her husband's name in, say, "My husband and I wanted you to know," and so forth. Said, "We just tuned in to your broadcast on XEG because a dear friend of ours, brother Charles Halff, "The Christian Jew", maybe you know him, told us to tune ... to listen to you, and how we thank the Lord for that." And I thought, "What under heaven is Charles Halff doing recommending my broadcast?" I said, "Well the Lord knows." So I began to listen to him a little more carefully when I was down here and remember to tune in to his broadcast on KGER.

...I went back before I heard this letter from Mrs. Wynn, my wife and I took a trip back east, and while I was back there, John Morey will remember the time, somewhere along the last of the summer, he got a phone call one day from a Charles Halff. He was out here in Los Angeles, southern California, he tried to get a hold of me, find my name in the phone book (since I'm not living in this area, he couldn't) and he found out something about   [?]    KGER and called the station, they said, "We don't know where you can reach him but probably you can get word by calling John Morey, Morey's Music Store." John had been in contact with the station to get the original contract on it. So, he made contact, called John, asked where I was, and so forth. And he said, "But does ... brother Johnson, you folks, are you incorporated?" And John said, "No! Not any man-made corporation." Well he said, "How can you carry on the work?" He said, "I didn't want to incorporate, but I had to." Well I don't know what all John said along that line, but he said, "You tell brother Johnson if he ever comes back to San Antonio, he's certainly welcome to preach in my church."

Well when I got back and heard that from John, I thought, "What ...?", and then I think it was about that time that I got that letter from Mrs. Wynn saying that Charles had told them to tune in. I may get the time element a little mixed, but that's not important right here.

So I gave the name of Mrs. Wynn, and brother and sister Wynn, their address here, and admonished two or three of the ladies here to, to write if they felt liberty. And Maude Brissey wrote Richard and Lee Bailey and included a word about this Mrs Wynn, giving the name and address. Richard follows it up, goes from Tulsa to Oklahoma City and meets the Wynns. And brother Wynn said, young couple, two little children, brother Wynn's in the brokerage business, they used to be ... been saved two years. They went in the Presbyterians, big starchy one downtown, Oklahoma City, and then became convinced that there were a good many things there that were not Christian, they were grieved, and they went into a Baptist in that immediate neighborhood.

And they began to get truths from Charles Halff's radio preacher, that caused them to check up on some things in the Baptists, and they began to be at loggerheads with the Baptist pastor and some of the other leaders. And about that time was when Charles told them, he visited them, and came all the way from San Antonio, several hundred miles, away. And he told them, they told him they were sick and disgusted with denominationalism, and they were enjoying what he was preaching about the Christian, one true faith, what he was preaching over the radio. And he said, "I don't know any Christians in this neighborhood, in this area that you can meet with." But he knew Richard Bailey and the Christians over in Tulsa. And he knew that Richard Bailey and I used to be together and had no reason to believe that we weren't still, and those with us, the things of God. But he said, "I don't know anybody in this area you can meet with. You tune in to Maurice Johnson's broadcast on XEG."

Brother Wynn made an observation that I think maybe was an astute appraisal of Charles Halff and his purpose in getting them to tune in to me. He said, "If I look back now and wonder what in the world they asked ... made him recommend you?" And he said, "The best I can figure out is, that he hearing that we were disgusted with denominationalism and were supporting him, thought that by hearing you brother Maurice in your broadcast emanating from Los Angeles, that ... we would be strengthened against denominations and be more loyal to him, that you were far enough away not to hurt, but maybe to help." "Well," I said, "Of course we don't know, but... that sounds like it's the most reasonable thing," and especially in the light of subsequent events that something like that was his strategy.

But now watch. So Richard Bailey visits the Wynns (I hadn't met them of course yet) and finds them delightful Christians, in all appearance delightful Christians I mean, we're glad to believe they are. And directly brother Wynn said, "Brother Bailey, do you have any literature that you've written?" Richard, among other things, gave a little tract that he wrote years ago when he was still in Los Angeles, "Should Christians Belong to Denominations?" And brother ... Wynn, thank you, began to read it and said, "Did you write that brother Bailey?" Richard says, "Yes." But it may have been Richard's second visit, I'm not sure about that before brother Wynn said, "Brother Bailey, look at this that brother Halff sent, "Should Christians Belong to Denominations?" "The Sermon on the Mount" "For other copies write brother Charles Halff Christian Jew". And Richard began to read it ... and Richard told me, he said, "I got mad. It was my study word for word with a few addition... added sentences at the end." No hint that it wasn't his own sermon and tract. So that started Richard. I may get these events not in their proper order, but brother Jack Langford here heard it all gone over again, virtually all this interest, at the Wynns the other night with Charles Halff present. Was it Tuesday night?

(Jack Langford from audience) Yes.

Tuesday night till midnight or past. Charles, he had flown from San Antonio, or anyway had gone back on a plane, he had gone those hundreds of miles to be at the Wynns. And I'll tell you why directly, that is, I'm pretty sure why. But anyway, the Wynns asked Richard way back there before I met the Wynns, they said, "What do you, what do you think about Charles Halff?" And Richard ... and Mrs. Wynn I believe said, "He has a ... he certainly has a wonderful Christian wife." Richard said, "Which one?" "Which one?" Richard said, "Yes. Evidently it isn't his first one." "What do you mean?" Richard said, "Well, I met him after he had been a Baptist evangelist, a Baptist evangelist, and then turned from that, threw everything overboard, and wrote the most horrible, possible the most horrible atheist ...

(gap on tape)

And Richard said, "What?" They said, "Do you have that book?" "I certainly do." "Can we see it?" Richard said, "The next time I come out here." And he quotes Tom Paine, ridicules the virgin birth, ridicules Christ's shed blood, he ridicules the Bible, makes fun of it. Richard said, "I was on the radio in Tulsa and would get letters time after time after time from a Jew named Charles Halff ridiculing, saying, "Why didn't you bring this up? Why don't you go to that part of the Bible? Why didn't you do this?" And he said, "Finally I met him. And when I met him, he had professed to give that up, and said he'd written some cards to people that had gotten his book telling them that he had repudiated his atheistic stand. And at this time had gone into Universal Reconciliation," everybody including the devil and Judas are going to be saved, and Richard said, "that was when I met him, see, and invited him out to hear me. That's when he got this."

Somewhere along these events he came to Richard and said, "I'm in love with a girl that's a member of the Church of Christ," so-called "Church of Christ", and he said, "I don't want to marry her as long as she believes that doctrine of water baptism salvation, and I believe you can help her. Will you talk to her?" "I'd be delighted to." So Richard went with Charles Halff to talk to this young lady and pled with her and studied with her, but she repudiated the whole thing, and stayed on with her Campbellite doctrine, and Charles Halff married her just the same. Richard said, "I pled with him. Said, "You can't do that. You've got no right to as a Christian."" And I don't know how long lived together, but got a divorce. Since that time Charles left Tulsa and began this preaching that he's now engaging in, see. Claims to be undenominational, no organization back of him he says. It's his own organization of course.

When the Wynns heard this from Richard, they were shocked and could hardly believe it. They wrote Charles Halff, brother Wynn did, and I had saw the letter, written brother Halff. And what did Charles Halff do? He went to the long distance telephone and called them, and called Richard! And he said, "Those things ..." he said, "Yes, I denied, I slipped like the apostle Peter who denied his Lord three times. You've gone back and dug u p from under the blood, things that are under the blood. You think that's going to do, and poison the minds of the Wynns regarding me." And Richard said, "Will you meet me at the Wynns and then we'll go into things together?" "Well uhh ... If I can ... When I have time," and so forth. Richard said, "Will you meet me now? Iíll come right now, to the Wynns." And he ?

So then Charles Halff called the Wynns and wrote them, and I've seen the letter he wrote them; had it in his office the other night, and used part of it, reasoning with it. He started out like this, "Six things doth the Lord hate, yea se..." Now the reason I'm giving this is primarily to help you to see that we've got to be careful who it is, whom it is that we support. Paul did not say, "Mark those which talk." He did not say, "Mark those which talk." He said, "Mark those which walk." "And I beseech you to walk worthy of the calling wherewith you're called, with all lowliness and meekness With long-suffering, forbearing one another in love, endeavoring to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace." I said to him as I mentioned this morning, I said to Charles Halff the other night in Tulsa, I said, "I heard you, I think it was the first message you gave announced as such on the series on the unity of the Spirit. And it was beautiful. But I said, "What business have you got announcing yourself as a Christian Jew? Had you read Ephesians the 2nd chapter before you got expounding the 4th chapter, you'd have seen that the believing Jew and the believing Gentile, the twain were made one new man, and it's not a part of the unity of Spirit to advertise yourself as a Jew." I said, "That's smart, I'll admit, because a lot of people in this country that will begin to back up and support a converted dew or a converted gangster or a converted Hollywood actress or something when they won't with the same ..." well anyway, I went some things like that.

And I said, "There's a program at Los Angeles, there's an organization in Los Angeles called the First Hebrew Christian Synagogue that I have referred to more than one time as being an utter Mulligan stew of contradiction. If it's Christian, it isn't Hebrew. And neither is the synagogue the first Hebrew Christian synagogue, Hebrew Christian synagogue. But it's smart, it's clever, and Dr A.U. Michaelson, founder and head of it, is on the national hook-up, has been off and on for years, and people throw money into it. He talks about the Jewish work, Jewish work, I mean appeal to people. And the Los Angeles Better Business Bureau, just from the standpoint of cruel business, got out an official decision exposing A.U. Michaelson and his crookedness right after the Second World War in which he was appealing to people for, for Jewish orphans, money for Jewish orphans that had fled Hitler and how he was supporting it. And they investigated it, he was getting money, only God knows how much money, and they ... ran the risk of a libel suit of course, they got an official statement warning the people against A.U. Michaelson's crooked money-getting in the main. Now God blesses every dollar given by a Christian given to honor the Lord, regardless of how it's maybe used or misused.

But now watch, what I'm trying to get at is this: the only way you and I can know who is right is to have godly tear and godly determination to check-up. We're not going to be right accidentally in a world of confusion. We're admonished in ... in one of the epistles in the book of Revelation, people are commended for "trying those that are apostles, and are found to be liars". They're commended for that. And in I Thessalonians 5, "Prove all things", "Prove all things".

Sometimes people say, "Well, how do we know youíre not a false teacher?" And I often say, I mean comparatively often, I say, "Well, how do you know? It's important that you know. How do you know? Do you want to know? Do you have confidence that you can know? Or is that just a charge, "How do you know?" "You're ten times what you call me." That's what I used to say when I was a boy. In Texas, one of my brothers you know, would say something like, "You're ten times what you call me. You're a hundred times, you're a thousand times." Well that's the way grown people do today, see.

"How do we know you're not a false teacher?" Well how do you? Its important. We can know. God's told us how to check up and find out what's wrong, here and there, and whether we're right or not. It's all important to know whether we're right and whether this man's right, and it's only ... listen it's only people who are, have something to cover-up in their own lives that say, "Well I don't think we should criticize." It's because you're afraid the searchlight's coming down your house. That's the reason you take that attitude. And you know it is, and God does. "He that is of the light, cometh to the light that his deeds may be made manifest that they're wrought in God." "Prove all things." God help us to see that.

Charles Halff started his letter, "Six things doth the Lord hate, yea seven are an abomination. He that soweth discord among brethren," so forth, went on down, another text, "You're not to go about as a talebearer," and "He that is ... If a brother be overtaken in a fault, ye that are spiritual restore such a one in the spirit of meekness, considering thyself lest thou also be tempted." And he said to the Wynns, "That, that, that sweetness of that verse often grips me." When I read his letter I thought, "Julius Schacknow." Took off later down in his letter, he said, "When Richard Bailey," he said, "I could tell you a lot of things about Richard Bailey." Now that, you know that's that sweet loving method. "I'm not going to criticize Stan ... Stanley Zilinski at all, but I could sure tell you a lot of things about him." Isn't that loving now? You don't know whether that means that he's an ex-convict or robbing tin cups of blind people, you don't know what he is, "I'm not ,going to be naughty, I'm not going to tell you anything about him, but I sure could." Now Charles Halff said, "I'm not going to ... but I could tell you a lot of things about Richard Bailey."

I quoted that the other night to him, I said, "Notice, brother Ike Sidebottom 'd be glad to tell you all about Richard Bailey and his clan." And three times he used the word 'claní, "Richard and his clan", and one time "Richard and his cult." He said, "You mark my words, if you go on with Richard Bailey and his clan, you'll lose all your interest in winning souls." Well, I talked that over with the other three fellows when we were riding along together. I said, "Brethren, let's let that do what God wants it to do to us. Are we as interested in winning people to Jesus Christ as we should be? Is there anything about the doctrine we preach that cools our zeal for lost souls? No, thank God. It's just us that are weak and cowardly at times and forget. Its not the glorious truth of the one body and the headship of Jesus Christ and the completeness in Christ. That doesn't slow us down anywhere spiritually. The devil doesn't want us, he wants to knock us out of course to the degree that we are right and contending for much neglected truth.

But Charles Halff goes on. He said, closes by saying, "I hope you'll be sure to see brother Sidebottom." He said, "You ask Richard Bailey how many souls he's led to the Lord this last year. We have over 600 in our broadcast," and so forth. And you should have heard him the other night in his office with Richard Bailey, Bob Thompson, and James Cox, and I were there. After we'd been there nearly two hours. he said, "Here we've been here all this time while thousands of precious lost souls are going to hell." I called the Wynns' attention to that. And then we made a tape, and brother Jack Langford witnessed, will witness the fact that that was brought out the other night with Richard present and Charles Halff at the Wynns and Jack Langford there and Earl Stamper Jr, were there. They heard the tape, Richard, we four fellows, the next morning, uh, Charles Halff wouldn't let us make a tape recording. We were going back in to play his own recording in his studio office, and when we got down there ...

By the way, the first thing he did was to show us around. He said, "I'd like to show my office." And brother Ed, it was bigger than yours. You should have seen that office and that equipment, desks, desks, desks, desks, and files, with every state across there; it looked like every state in the Union. My ... beautiful new steel files and cabinets, and he showed us into three, four large rooms, and then said, "Now let me step across the hall and show you another one of my storage rooms." And there were big, two big rooms with stuff piled all around, you ... and he said, "My the Lord's blessed our way. We began with a little hole-in-the-wall and one little station." And he said, "Now we have ... but the Lord's given us all of this," you know, after saying, "Please send money, and, after going ..." "The Lord's given us all this and we're on 14 stations and hope to be on 17 before long," and so forth. Showed us all that before we began to talk. But when he said, "That we'd been here all this time and many ... thousands of precious lost souls going to hell," and I said, "My dear brother, the apostles, all the apostles and elders came together at Jerusalem for a counsel to consider problems that were dividing God's people." And I said, "We wanted to meet you because there are some babes in Christ that are grieved and are hurt and are wounded over the problems that you have brought up, the things." And he said, "When brother Richard Bailey said, Richard, when you said, or brother Bailey, when you said to the Wynns that you hoped I had repented," he said, "you think that was Christian?" Richard said, "I hope you have repented." And he said, "Bring out from under the blood." He said, "David sinned. Read about David's awful sin. David sinned," and he said, "Abraham sinned, and Peter denied his Lord three times. Yes, I slipped. I know I did, and I confessed it; it's under the blood. But," he said, "when I wrote that book brother Richard you know I told you that I had a nervous breakdown and almost lost my mind. And ... my ..."

Anyway I said to him, "Just a minute. You wrote that book when you were about crazy, almost lost your mind?" I said, "That's a remarkably keen and well written book for a fellow that's just about lost his mind, and a nervous breakdown. And," I said, "not only that my dear brother, one minute you talk about your sins being under the blood and you deeply resent Richard having mentioned to these folks. You didn't know about that? You say that he said that he's never doubted his salvation since he first received Christ, and yet you repudiated the whole thing after being a Baptist evangelist for some years and wrote the most blasphemous, atheistic book. And wrote me letters over and over again from the radio, to the radio, from the radio audience, and then went into Universal Reconciliation and off." And I said to him, "What could Richard say honestly but "I hope he's repented"?" "And now you talk about, you make out like you're, what you been doing is a parallel to David's sin. You writing that atheistic book is a parallel to Peter denying the Lord three times in, in moments of weakness. As though Peter," I said (I didn't give all these words), "as though Peter had deliberately repudiated and cruelly over a period I don't know how long written an atheistic book, and then came out of that apparently and gone into another wild fire cult, Universal Reconciliation, and then come back and preached, "I've never doubted my salvation." Talking about Richard bringing something from up under the blood.

May God help you to see what a trifler you are! comparing yourself with, with David's sin. I could believe David get angry ... you suppose David had been angry if somebody a few years later had said, "Why, did I understand David to say that he had never slipped since he was saved. Why look at that." I said, "David himself exposes and he dried out and it's written. And you can't conceive of David resenting somebody calling attention to the time when he was in sin and dishonoring his God."

But I said, "You, what ..." I said, "What's ? ? ? ? ? It's because Charles Halff has been criticized, not because the Wynns that you profess to love, not because the Wynns have been grieved, but because Charles Halff is peeved." And I said, "My dear brother, in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ, as an older man, and as a servant of Jesus Christ, I rebuke you of these things, I warn you of these things. May God help you." And I said, "You're trifling with the things of God and trafficking in the things of God."

I mentioned this morning at ... Rich... I asked him, "Do you believe it's Biblical to use the title Reverend?" "Nope. No, of course not." Bob Thompson said, "When I looked in the phone book for your name, I found Reverend Charles Halff." "Well," he said, "that was put in there a good while ago and I haven't taken the trouble to get it out." But he said, "I know it's unBiblical," said, "I ... in fact, look here, what I've written, here's a tract." And he opened a tract right there on the shelf and said, "Look here. A study against using the title Reverend," by Charles Halff, the study did. A few minutes later, several minutes later when we were out in the hall waiting for the elevator, he said to Richard and I think, no, to Bob Thompson and James Cox, "Iíve got to be perfectly frank fellows about that matter of Reverend," he said, "I had to use it in order to, in dealing with the Internal Revenue." He said, "I had to be a recognized minister, a Reverend. I don't want to be, but I had to."

Now what do you think about a fellow like that? Why you can't believe in his common honesty much less godliness. One minute, "Yes it's unBiblical", "You use it in the telephone". "Well that was a good while ago; haven't taken the time to take it out. But I've written against it; here." And show us that. And then later say, "To be perfectly frank, I have to." My friends, that's all that makes denominations. It's pussy-footing and inconsistent and trifling with the things of God.

And he said, toward the first of the meeting there, I said, "Brother Halff, in your letter here to Richard ... to the Wynns that I have here, the original letter, that I have a copy, well," I said, "of course he expected that, in you letter here you say, "If you want to know all about Richard Bailey and his clan, ask brother Ike Sidebottom, a dear man of God, in Dallas, and he'll be glad to tell you all about him". Now," I said, "how does that strike up with you telling the Wynns to tune in and hear me?" "Well," he said, "that was after that I saw brother Sidebottom.""Well," I said, "how about .., how does that strike up with your visit in California when you told John Morey ... did you?" and he said yes, "when you told John Morey over the phone if I ever come to San Antonio I was welcome to preach in your church. Did you say that?" " Yes." "Am I still welcome?" "Well uh ... if uh ... if you ... if the Lord wills it, if we open the door, why yes." Well I wasn't going to stay there tomorrow or I'd like to have said, "When's the next time that the building is open?" But anyway I didn't.

And he said, "Brother Johnson, it isn't just what brother Sidebottom said," Now mind you, he's the fellow that wrote in the beginning of his letter, "Six things does the Lord hate, yea seven are an abomination: he that sows discord among brethren, and so forth, and don't go about as a talebearer."

New watch, what I want to bring out among other things my friends, that there's not anybody on the face of the earth that has an individual program pretending to be non-sectarian that isn't a crook. You've got to blame us men or you've got to blame the Spirit of God. I've gotten to that point a good while ago. Brother Ed, ever think along that line years ago, that caused me to come out with the thought, "Don't blame God for religious confusion." I mean that's the first time I thought of it that way. Don't blame God for religious confusion. It's blameworthy! But it doesn't belong on the Lord. He's not the author of confusion.

Now watch. Mind you, I was hopeful, hopeful, after these first things I heard about him telling the Wynns to tune in, and coming out here and calling, trying to get a hold of me on the phone, and giving words to John, "If I come back to San Antonio, I'm welcome to preach in his church." I was hopeful until these other things came up, and it only grieved my soul, somebody heard these things. Let's pray for him. I told some of you folks here," I can't, I can't understand, but maybe it's just as, just all as good as it sounds. And I hope we find ..." until, until I saw what happened which Richard told the Wynns some things he knew.

So what did brother Halff say the other night there in his office with these three, four fellows sitting there? He said, "Brother Johnson, brother O'Hair from Chicago," he said, "you know you used to be assistant pastor to him." He said,"He sat right where" and pointed to one of the fellows, "right where you're sitting." He said, "He's dead now." I said, "Yes, I know. Been dead several months." He said, "He has a sister down here, and he was visiting down here from Chicago to San Antonio." He said, "He sat right there where you're sitting. And told me that after you begged him over and over again to let you preach in his pulpit on the Lord's Supper that he finally let you do it. And he told me a lot of other things." I had already said in the beginning of our session, I said, "Brother Halff, you know, in the Word of God way back in Deuteronomy, and throughout the New Testament Scriptures, we're told "one witness shall not rise up against another", "in the mouth of two or three witnesses let every word be established." He said, "That's right." And then said brother O'Hair sat there and told him those things about me. And I said, "Now, that's all you want to tell me about that? Brother O'Hair told him that and a lot of other things." Didn't tell him whether I beat my wife with a wet rope those 11 months that I was assistant pastor up there to O'Hair. Didn't tell me whether some, whether I robbed the drug store across the street, ? ? That's the fellow that said, "You mustn't go about as a talebearer."

So most of these things I've already said the other night in Oklahoma City, weren't they? with Richard Bailey there and the Wynns had heard the tape the night before Charles got there, they'd heard the tape, or I'd took it up and left it with them, they'd heard the tape that Bob Thompson, Richard Bailey, James Cox, and I made the next morning, going over the things, four of us together ... going over the things that had transpired the night before in Charles' office.

Charles said ... I said, "Now about brother O'Hair, it's true that he's one witness, and he's gone, and I'm a witness. But in as much as it's about me, let me say something." I said, "Brother Charles, as I fear God and love the Lord Jesus Christ and value my soulís salvation, I want to say that there's no truth whatsoever to that. I never asked brother O'Hair one time in my life if I could preach in his pulpit on the Lord's supper. Now," I said, "what did happen was that he invited me to come to the second Berean Bible Conference in February of 1935 in his meeting house in Chicago. I went. And it was ruled out that anybody could speak during that conference of the Lord's supper. But water baptism and when the church began, those were the bones of contention for this, this conference. But it had been decided... six months before at the first Berean Conference, that they would not take up the supper because brother O'Hair and some of the other better known preachers were being accused of being on their way from water baptism, no water baptism to no supper, see, and they were saying, "No sir! They're not connected. You can give up water baptism which doesn't belong today, but the supper belongs." So they said in the Berean Con... Moody Bible Institute was saying that, Moody Church was saying that, and so they decided, "No sir, we will not allow the subject of the supper to be brought up in conference.""

"Well I got up... the first opportunity I had to speak to try to refute some of the arguments that the church of 1 & 2 Corinthians and Romans, 1 & 2 Thessalonians is not the same body as Ephesians and Colossians, I got up to refute that, and I said, "Now brethren, I want to say first that I'm not taking the position I'm taking as to when the church began because I want to hold onto any physical ordinances, because I not only have given up water baptism but I do not believe that the New Covenant supper belongs to the church which is Christ's body. I've preached against it for a few years on the radio in Southern California and I've already suffered a little adverse criticism. So, it isn't because I want to protect physical ordinances that I'm taking the position I'm taking." Well I went ahead. Then, a couple. days later I think, some of the young, younger fellows came to me, Vincent Bennett and some of the others, and said, "Brother Johnson, we'd like to hear you give a study on why you don't believe the physical supper is for the church which is Christ's body. If we get brother O'Hair and or Bultema's permission for us to have a private session in the downstairs basement Sunday School room, just for preachers, will you speak?" I said, "I'd be delighted to." And that's what happened." I told Charles Halff.

Now I said, "I didn't ask at all. I never did speak on it in brother O'Hair's pulpit. But these young fellows asked those leaders of the conference and I spoke."

"Now," he said, "well that isn't the ? " he said, He said, "I hold meetings," Charles Halff, in his presence, "I hold meetings in lots of places, and up in Stephensville or somewhere up north, I think it was near Stephensville," well it wasn't, I've never preached in Stephensville in my life. I think it was Gainesville, but he said, "I think it was Stephensville." He said, "Two ladies that come to my meeting that used to hear you, and they told me about you." I said, "Is that so? What would they say?" "That you used to come out against brother Sidebottom," And he said, "Not only that, but a lady in Denton said, said I preached there, a lady in Denton told me things about you." I didn't ask him what she said. Maybe I stole somebody's lollipop, I didn't know what it was, but I didn't ask him ? But she told him something.

Now that's the fellow ... I said to the boys after I got back to the motel, I said, "I wish one of us had thought to bring, to say, "Charles, you're the fellow that doesn't believe in sowing discord among brethren, and that believes in preaching the gospel to precious lost souls, and that we shouldn't have wasted the time here in the office while precious souls are Lost, going to hell. You're the fellow that doesn't believe in being a talebearer. Will you explain to us how it happened that the name of that little guy Maurice Johnson came up between you and brother O'Hair from Chicago here in your wonderful office? And how it'd happen that the name of Maurice Johnson came up when you were speaking up yonder at Stephensville and between you and two ladies? How did my name, Johnson's name, come up? And when you were talking to the lady in Denton, how did Maurice Johnson's name come up? And when you were talking in Ft Worth with Ike Sidebottom, how did the name Maurice Johnson come up? What in the world happened here?"

(comment from audience) I believe he spent all that time mud slinging ...

... All those precious hours for precious lost souls.

Now I'm just bringing out my friend... I said to the boys as, on the way back and as we got to the cabin, the motel, I said, "Fellows, to me this is another remarkable case of how the undenominational sectarians and Fundamentalism can get together, they can smell the scent of those of us who are endeavoring to keep the unity of the Spirit, it's a ... you can't explain how all that happened!" O'Hair knows that I've pled with him and invited him over to dinner when he was out here speaking for Louis Talbot. I invited him to dinner, I used to be assistant pastor, I invited him to dinner in Glendale and I, about a year or two after I came to see the truth of the one body. And I said, "Brother O'Hair, how can you with the knowledge you have of God's Word and the dispensational program of God -- what the church is, how can you continue with that North Shore Congregational Church? You know that's unscriptural, you know even the name Congregationalist is brought into disrepute because the denomination's gone into rampant Unitarianism all over the country." And he said, "We're going to drop that name." Well I said, "Whatever," and I talked about the one true church. Not very long after that they dropped the name Congregational, North Shore Church, had it ever since then.

But anyway, I studied with brother O'Hair. But I was young fellow then. He had ministered too in many ways years ago. I am indebted unto God to brother O'Hair in the early years of my Christian life.  I met him in 1916.

But anyway, brother O'Hair knows that I've given a testimony when he was out here some few years ago. Who was it of you brethren that went to him and asked him up in, up in Riverside and then in, in somewhere else, asked him if he would meet me in public joint discussion?  Isn't the fellow here?  There were two of them, two of them.

(comment from audience)  It was myself and someone else.

And he said, "I'm too old to meet Maurice. I'm too nervous," and so forth. And when his first lieutenant you might say, Cornelius Stam, I did likewise. I said ...

(comment from audience) ? ? ? Go ahead.

0h yeah. And ... that's right... Bob ?   went up to him.

But anyway, and Ike Sidebottom, (I won't go farther than that) I've known him for years, and ... he's in Ft Worth, and Bob Thompson and I think will readily agree that his type of undenominational denominationalism, with his public ministry, is the greatest hindrance to the walk of the believer in the areas where he preaches. Because he has just enough incorporation, just enough corporate ownership of property and, and exclusiveness ... he, he will say, "Well I don't feel ... feel free to invite you in my pulpit," and claims to be undenominational! Last time I talked to him in his study, I pointed him to his main auditorium and I said, "Ike, everything that goes on in that room that's of God is as much mine as it ever could be yours." "I know. I know. But I think as a matter of exchanging pulpits I think it'd be better for us to not exchange pulpits." I said, "Whose pulpit is that?" pointing to the physical thing, "whose pulpit is that?" "Well," he said, "it's the Lord's, but," he said, "the Lord's placed me here now." I said, "I'm here too." "Well, you go ahead and we'll see, the Lord ... we'll see the stamp of the Lord's approval on the work, our work. We'll answer to God." Now, I have withstood that because it's damnable to pretend to be undenominational and yet be a little dictator. It's a vicious thing.

And those fellows, how they get together? Now how did Charles Halff get on my trail right there to go around when I'm 1500 miles away and get all that information? It's just subtle, it's the way the devil does it. Well, what are we to do? I didn't have anything to do with tracking Charles down. It all came like that. Also we had the opportunity and I thought it would be what God would have to help try to save Charles and try to help him if he's helpable. And so we four went there, and it was a blessed privilege and a very sacred responsibility. Richard Bailey said to him after Charles had come out over and over again with things showing his resentment, his bitterness that Richard had let the Wynns know about this in and out escapades, instead of saying, "Why ..." to the Wynns, I told him, "Instead of you saying, ĎI'm ashamed that I myself didn't tell you some of the wreckage ? that I was saved from,í instead of resenting Richard having referred to it." You see?

And I told him, I said, Richard had already said, said, "Charles, I told you before, and the same is true again, I have no confidence in you at all." "Well I'm sorry brother Richard. What would you like me to do? Jump out of that window and commit suicide. Would that please you?" And he was just as smooth and calm as Julius Schacknow ever was. Make no mistake about that. He's a foxy fellow, and I told him just that, more than one time, and I did it with severe rebuke to him. And I said, "You can work that smooth salesmanship and that soft stuff my dear brother, but it's too plain to me that the only thing so far as I've seen, or the only thing that stirs Charles Halff to fighting is when Charles Halffís criticized. It wasn't that the Wynns are grieved, the hurt. It isn't that ... that I have been falsely attacked that stirred you." I said, "I saw in one of your magazines, I've seen two or three copies, your open letter to Theodore Epp of the old ... Back to the Bible Hour radio program," and I said, "You were up in arms and attack, you wrote an open letter calling him by name. When? Because he taught something unBiblical? No sir! Because he criticized Charles Halff and fought Easter and every Christmas. Then you came to bat. And opened all your fight. You're ready to fight when Charles Halff is called on the carpet." Well I said, "My dear brother, we're here to fight for the Lord Jesus Christ and His headship and the church which is His body."

Richard Bailey said over the phone the other day, calling for me but I wasn't at the house at the time, Bill Nichol's house, Bill was about to leave ... you see, we had our meeting down in San Antonio Thursday night, and Sunday... Saturday night, I got to Oklahoma City on my way to Wichita, spent the night with the Wynns, Saturday night. Charles Halff in all probability didn't know that I would be there, or get to, and I took the tape that we four fellows had made about the meeting, left it with the Wynns, though they didn't have time to hear it. And they took me the next morning up to Wichita. I relayed a good deal. And I said, "how you check up on this. You have no right to accept my statements as established facts until you hear." I said, "The things you already know why that'll be another witness, but as to the things that I told you about the visit down there with him, you must wait, reserve judgment until you hear the tape." I went over some of those things and left the tape with them.

Charles Halff, either ? when he flew up there, he flew up there from San Antonio and flew back, he flew up there to visit the Wynns. After all these attacks ? ? thing, but the Wynns, thank God, had already taken the tape over several miles to Earl Stamper who had the recorder now and listened to the tape Monday night. And was it Tuesday afternoon that Mrs Wynn or Wynn called Richard from Oklahoma City to Tulsa and said, "Charles Halff is here." And Richard said, "I'll be right over. Soon as I can make it." And Jack Langford drove him. And they got over there, and they had the session with Charles Halff and Earl Stamper at the Wynns till about midnight. Richard told me over the phone, I mean told the Nichols and told to tell me, that brother Jack Langford was really used of God right very late when he in a very definite Christian manner brought very frankness, sincerely, rebuked Charles and told him what he believed he was in the light of all that had transpired with testimonies there.

Jack, if you'd like to say a word in these things. If I've related anything in any of the events that were mentioned by Richard and the Wynns and Earl Stamper who had heard the tape ... he'd heard it hadn't he?

(Jack Langford from audience) Yes.

Oh well. And of course Wynns had heard the tape. Now do you recall anything that I've related that they mentioned that was inaccurate at all? You want to say a word? Not meaning to attack any character. I didn't have the faintest, hadn't the faintest reason to believe that brother Langford had any attitude like, that. Richard stressed the fact that he believed brother Jack spoke as a Christian, very frankly, and grieved, as he told Charles Halff what he, after witnessing all of this, believed about him. You want to add any word Jack?

(Jack Langford from audience)       ?      ?

No, no, not in any detail. That of course it's too late. I didn't ... but just, you know ... just the gist.

These things are valuable. Let me just say this other word. We believe in proving all things. Charles Halff is coming in here, numbers of you have heard him, I have, and you've heard ... he sounds like a dear brother, sounds like maybe he's preaching the whole counsel, wants to, and it's our business to say, "What's going on here? We must stand with him if he's with the Lord in the truth. If, if it's hard for us to endeavor to keep ... we've got to go miles sometimes to sit down with brethren and study together. Brother Jack Langford went by, he went up ... tell us a word about going up to Chicago to check up for himself in a visit with Julius Schacknow. I forgot about that.

(Jack Langford) Ok. Richard, I should tell you, also asked me to relate by tape some of these things to Alden. So I guess I'll be needing to send him I hope. I just stopped by Julius Schacknow in St Louis, Missouri.

(Maurice Johnson) Pardon me. Not all of you know that it was Julius Schacknow that first met Jack and introduced some of us to Jack. That's right?

(Jack Langford) Yes. And then later on of course Julius went astray. I did not know at all of the details or the circumstances so I wanted to find out for myself just exactly what happened and confirm if what I had learned here was true. And so I met Julius and what Julius told me in essence, he said, told to me, came to light after we had met with Charles Halff here and had the incident there. It's certainly a dangerous thing. I saw it very clearly. I know that it helped the others who were there to see how that some men can be true preachers of the gospel and hide behind that when it comes to their walk. In other words, they can walk the way they want to and in that of course leading Christians astray, and yet when you come to deal with them on that subject, they'll go back and hide behind the gospel so you won't touch them.

(Maurice Johnson) Yes, yes.

(Jack Langford) An interesting scripture that Richard pointed out after this was happened and we discussed it there, it was really a blessing to us, was out of I Kings the 2nd chapter. You remember when Solomon was purging out those old enemies of David. One of them was Joab who had gone down to the gate one time in days and he had put a hand around an old friend supposedly and then he stabbed him in the ribs and slew him. Well Solomon was now going to purge him for that crime. And Joab ran to the Tabernacle and clung to the horns of the afar, and ... not for mer... not for forgiveness or for cleansing, but to hide there thinking that certainly Solomon's man wouldn't come there to get him.

And that's what Charles Halff did here. After Richard had sat down and brought all these things to light in the face of all of us, and Charles Halff would talk around them, and, and in one minute say, "I'm sorry, and it's wrong, but, but this is the reason I did it," and say, "I was out of my mind here and, and I didn't want to contact you here," and gave excuses so that his pride and for himself wouldn't be exposed."

(Maurice Johnson) Yes.

(Jack Langford) And he deliberately avoided and refused to answer and just walk backwards and, and squirm around everything that Richard brought up, so that the Wynns might clearly see and be confirmed, not only from the tape, but from the meeting there that Charles Halff was a wolf in sheep's clothing, and using precious things to lead off disciples after himself, or for his own pride or for his own following and support.

Well, after Richard had exhausted every bit of truth he had and after Charles had just squirmed and wiggled every ounce he could out and just lied right there in front of everybody, then Charles, as Richard referred to it, drew out his last trump card. And he was there to try to get back the Wynns, no doubt, because Brice Wynn had been on his board and was contributing a great deal to him. So of course he didn't want to lose Wynn.

(Maurice Johnson) On the board of his undenominational sect.

(Jack Langford) Well, Charles Halff began to ? ? ? , "Brother and sister Wynn, oh, my heart is so right. I preach the gospel. Iím not here to be contentious or to deceive or to bring any accusations against Richard and so forth. We're winning souls. That's what my heart is in." And he went to the place, he brought ... especially Mary Ann went almost to the point of weeping with his sad story, and it was really sad. And it really broke my heart, trying to make them think that we were there just tearing him apart, when all the time he was just earnestly winning souls and wanting to help them and be sincere. And he himself almost came to the place of weeping. And poor Mary Ann was sucked in by his deceitful use of the gospel and of the plan of salvation and of the Christian life, using that to avoid and try to escape the things that Richard was bringing against him.

(Maurice Johnson) Yes.

(Jack Langford) Well, when he had brought us up to a very high pitch of sorrow and, and "weak heart" so to speak for him, I knew that the Lord gave us spiritual discernment as to why he was doing that. And the Lord gave me liberty to say a few words. I, soon as Charles Halff stopped, I said, "Charles, I want to say a few things on what you just said." And I said, "Charles you break my heart." And Mary Ann was jerked to a sense, a place of seeing clearly why he was making those statements. I said, "Of course the reason you've been bringing all this stuff about the gospel, telling us your heart aches, and trying to get us to weep and to be in sympathy for you, was because you've avoided all the accusations that have been brought up against you, all the truth that has been brought up against you. And now you're trying to win their sympathy with this, by going to the gospel, the precious gospel. How you're misusing it, not for Christ's sake, but to hide behind, to escape what had been brought out against you."

And of course at that he just gave up and put his stuff in the bag and went to bed. And of course when he did that, Richard stayed there also. And the next day they took him to the airport. And when he was at the airport, Brice lifted down to get... his suitcase and on the tag was "Reverend Charles Halff". And that was a good thing for Brice at that time. That's all I got to say.

(Maurice Johnson) I want to mention two things that I forgot to mention that are very pertinent right here. When we were in his office that night, toward the close of the session he turned to Richard and Bob and James Cox, and said, "I don't blame you younger fellows for looking to brother Johnson as your leader and your teacher." He said, "You don't have anything else, you don't have any name, you don't have any organization, you don't have any corporate owned property; I don't blame you at all." And I said, "That's right, they don't have anything but the Lord Jesus Christ, and the infallible Word of God, and the Holy Spirit. That's all they have." I was glad that not a one of those three spoke out quickly. I spoke ... he paused and gave me a few seconds for I came up with that. That's right, isn't it.

Then after he said several times, "Well Richard, I'm sorry. Well, I'm sorry." We didn't believe it for a second. I've seen Julius and seen other criminals like... when policemen come up upon a fellow catching and steeling a tire, left his lights on while he's steeling a tire, "Well I'm sorry I didn't ..." "You didn't tell us you didn't." "I'm sorry." To show that it was nothing but smooth, foxy talk, "I'm sorry, I'm sorry", when we got out after it was all over, nearly, we're standing outside, he said, waiting for an elevator, he said, "I don't believe, I don't claim to be the only infallible teacher of the Word of God, and that I'm the only one that is right." I said, "Go ahead. I understand. Of course we understand," I said, "you don't think we're Protestant dumbbells do you Charles?" I said, "We understand what you mean. Now go ahead." And to prove that he did mean it, he said, "Well brother Johnson, don't you think that you are the only infallible teacher?" He started that sweet hypocritical, "I don't think I'm the only one," and then when I called him on it, "Brother Johnson, don't you think you're the only one that, that, only infallible teacher, and that you've, are the only ones that have the truth, and everybody else is wrong?"

I said, "Here's what I think, here's what I believe, and also say. That I think this is one of the most humiliating and certainly most humbling scriptures in all the Bible for saved men, preachers and teachers, I John 2, "Little children, these things I write unto you not because you know not the truth but because you know the truth. You have an unction, an anointing of the Holy One, and you know all things."" I said, "I interpret it this way some times. Here's a babe in Christ. The moment he's saved, he's given the Spirit of God to cry Abba, Father, so he knows there's one Father, his new nature. He has called Jesus Lord to be saved; he knows there's one Lord. And he's indwelt by the one Spirit; and so he doesn't feel the need of any other spirit, the Holy Spirit indwelling him, sealing him till the day of redemption. He loves, he knows there's one church, because ... because he just loves all the brethren. "We know we've passed from death unto life because we love the brethren." That's just his new nature: he doesn't know it up here, but he knows it in his new nature. And he knows there's one faith, the faith of Christ by which he's saved and he's walking now, and he doesn't feel the need of any man-made faith or religious code; one faith. And one baptism."

Now Charles you know has taken the position the Baptists and the Plymouth Brethren about water baptism: an outward sign of an inward work, though he knows better I have every reason to believe, I mean doctrinally. And I said, "The child of God, the babe in Christ doesn't feel the need of getting skin wet on the outside with physical water because there's a well of living water springing up on the inside, moment he's saved." So I said, "No, Charles, I really believe every saved person immediately knows experimentally the unity of the Spirit; one body, one church, one Spirit, one hope," I said, "the hope of the coming of his Savior and Lord. One hope, one faith, one Lord, one baptism, one God and Father." You think he ever said, "Well I'm ashamed that I've so falsely, viciously falsely accused you?" No, he didn't say that at all. He just again turned to the punch, you know, and smoothed and evaded and all like that. So I told him about what Richard had said.

Oh I said something to him about, "Shouldn't Richard," in the early part of the meeting, "shouldn't Richard have wanted to wait to see whether you who had made such horrible things, departures as you've made, shouldn't Richard have waited as a godly man, waited, hoping that you would prove, prove that you were genuine?" He said just as sweetly as I ever saw Julius say something, he said, "I am not interested in trying to prove to anybody what I am. I'm just interested in reaching precious lost souls." And I said, "That sweet mush doesn't go over big at all Charles with anybody that has some spiritual knowledge." I said, "The apostle Paul by inspiration said, "Timothy, make full proof of thy ministry.'' And that's what you sectarians don't want. You don't want the searchlight of God's Word down on you, that's why. And you're trying to cover up with all this sweet stuff about soul winning, and all like that. And you're denying the very thing that Christ prayed for, an illustrated unity that the world would believe, God sent Christ into the world."

Well, I'm sure we shouldn't take any more time. Now, anybody want to ask a question? If there's something that I have suggested or we've left unsaid. Remember that we tremble to some degree before the Word of God, admonished both Charles and the Halffs (sic) that "in the mouth of two or three witnesses let every word be established", and we sought to do that. And that it has been only another grievous disappointment that this young fellow that I had hoped might prove to be a really godly converted Jew. And I have to believe he's nothing but another merchant. And he decided that his atheistic book wasn't good merchandise and his Universal Reconciliation doctrine wasn't good merchandise and he hit upon this other. He's learned maybe from Charlie Fuller and Billy Graham and DeHaan and Theodore Epp how you can preach a lot of truth and stay in your own pen, be anything you want to personally, but if you pretend to he undenominational, there are slot of shallow Christians that'll fall for it. These men that say like Charlie Fuller and Theodore Epp and M.R. DeHaan and Billy Graham all stay in the Baptist organization. Why? For but one reason: because they're not endeavoring to build Baptist churches in their radio ministry. Why? Because that would cut them down to Baptists. And they are dishonest triflers in the Word of God. God help you to see that. Why don't they preach pure, I don't mean pure, but holy, Baptist doctrine over the radio? Because [they] want more than a Baptist following, that's exactly why they do it. I brought out more than one time on this trip, when Billy Graham was preaching in London, after he had joined the First Southern Baptist Church in Dallas, Texas, already a Southern Baptist, but he moved his membership to be in the historic Southern Baptist George Truitt's church in Dallas, after his Dallas campaign, I said when Billy Graham was holding his big meeting, meetings in London, at first the Archbishop of Canterbury... the Anglican dignitary wouldn't cooperate, and the Anglicans as such wouldn't cooperate in the Billy Graham meetings officially. But when they begin to see the crowds, "Well ..." first thing you know the Archbishop of Canterbury's sitting on the platform. And, and Billy Graham is showing pictures of this country having it sent back to publish ? , pictures of Billy Graham, Archbishop of Canterbury together, see. And I said, "Did Billy Graham the Southern Baptist, did he preach against water... sprinkling babies like the Episcopalians sprinkle babies washing away Adamic sin? And sprinkle adults with water washing away Adamic sin? And, and say that when you take the bread and grape juice consecrated by an Anglican priest (and they call them priests), when you take (and they call them father too, the priests), when you take the bread and grape juice sancti... consecrated by the Anglican clergyman, you are receiving Jesus Christ along with the bread and grape juice?"

The Roman Catholics use ... have the doctrine of transubstantiation, the bread and grape juice is transformed into Jesus Christ, spirit, soul, and divinity, under the appearance of bread and grape juice after the "Hocus-Pocus". The Episcopalians, Anglicans say "No, that's not true. That Jesus ... we believe in consubstantiation. Instead of Jesus Christ being in the appearance of bread and grape juice after the. prayer, He's with the bread and grape juice. 'Con' means "with", 'con'. He's with, and you take the bread and grape juice and Christ comes in with it. What's the difference? 'Con', 'trans', 'trans?, 'con', you know, see.

So, did Billy Graham come out against those things? My dear friends, Billy Graham never hit a sin in his whole London campaign that's worse than the sin of the teaching that sprinkling babies washes away original sin. Brother Ed, do you agree with me on that?

(Ed Stevens from audience) Amen.

Is there any sin worse than the teaching that water... sprinkling babies with water washes away original sin? And Billy Graham, you ask him privately, as a Baptist with a bunch of Baptist preachers around, say, "Do you believe in sprinkling babies that washes away original sin?" He'd probably say, "What do you think I am?" "Well what were you when you were preaching last week with the Archbishop of Canterbury on the platform in England? What were you?"

Now my dear friends, there are causes for Christians being divided today because these fellows, a lot of them, are clever talkers and they're masterful pulpiteers and they sweep people that haven't been built up in the faith. They sweep people off their feet with their "good words and fair speeches"as they "cause divisions and offenses contrary to the doctrine which we've learned," should have learned, "and they serve not, they serve not our Lord Jesus Christ but their own belly," and... what is it? And the good words and fair speeches "deceive the hearts of the simple".

What are you? Are you in that contemptible, carnal, simple class? Or are you growing up where you can take the meat of the Word? What's meat for? "Even them that are full grown, to those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern between the evil and the good." Can discern between. That's the way to grow, because we're down here in the enemy's territory. And weave got to put on the armor of God and meet the enemy resolutely and courageously and with hate, praying always with prayer and supplication. And if we do it, we grow in grace and knowledge of the Lord.

We fellows came out of that meeting with that young fellow, we came out of it, I think, with more soberness, with more appreciation of the subtlety of the enemy, and the need of admonishing and exhorting and encouraging you people for instance to think, to check up for themselves humbly and carefully and prayerfully. Wasn't it a blessing... well you've already said it was a blessing to you to go through that experience. And I hear that brother Earl Stamper expressed deep appreciation for what he saw and learned, both sorrow and heartache. Anyone a word now before we go? Not add another sermon, but ... yes?

(Jack Potter from audience) You mentioned awhile ago in connection with A.U. Michaelson, I think it was ...

Yeah ...(Jack Potter from audience) ... that God would bless a dollar given by a Christian. Would you go a little bit farther on that? If he, I mean, just because maybe Charles Halff preaches the gospel ...

... He said that, he's referring to what I said awhile ago about God would bless a dollar given by a Christian when a Christian didn't understand what it might be used for. Well that's when the Christian is innocent. As to, as to the source to which he's giving or the man or movement to which he's. giving. If a Christian doesn't understand and believe that because of the things he's heard that this is a, this is a ministry that God's blessing, and the Christian doesn't know any better. I mean if it's a minister that's mixed up in a sectarian program.

Remember that there are sectarian preachers who've decided to give Modernistic doctrine and other preachers. who've decided, "I'm not going to major in Modernistic doctrine, I'm going to major in Fundamental doctrine." And we find them often getting together just like Pharaoh ... Herod and Pilate against the living, the living Christ. Don't forget that. There are preachers who've made it ... they decide what they're going to preach. Maybe they get in a meeting and they watch Billy Graham or watch Billy Sunday or, or, or listen to Charles Fuller and they got a G.I. bill of going to school and, and they going to Fuller Seminary. And come out of Fundamentalism trained and smooth technique of giving things you may not believe in your own personal heart at all. It's their job! Just like some fellow, "Well I've decided I'm going to be a butcher, and from here on out I'm going to serve meat." "What are you going to be?" "I'm going to be a milkman, going to serve milk." "What are you going to be?" "I'm an orchard, going to serve them apples and peaches." "What are you?" "Well I'm going to work for the Sparkletts Water Company, I'm going to deliver water bottles." That doesn't mean that the person that sells meat is on a meat diet regularly or the person that's on a, sells milk is on a milk diet, it's his business, "It's what I'm selling."

"What do you purpose?" Paul says, "Mark those which walk." Christ said, "He that gathereth not with He scattereth abroad. Gathereth not with Me." How is Christ gathering today? In the Christian Jew movement? No! How's He gathering today? In the Old Fashioned Revival Hour movement? No! Now somebody says, "Is He gathering the Maurice Johnson movement?" No! Ten thousand times no. Maurice Johnson wants to ask God and you Christians to pray that any movement I may have hatched up will die a-hatching. You ever sit ... Tarwater ... go out where the eggs are hatching and you see an egg and the chicken had had enough strength to bust his shell open a little bit and then die. Well if I'm starting any movement I hope it dies 'fore the chicken gets out. Dies before it ever gets out.

Please! If you have a question, if you think I've been unkind will you give _me the opportunity to talk with you about it? Or would you would rather go off and, and try to show your "love" for somebody else by nicer than somebody else. We showed our love for Charles Halff by going to him. And we stopped in the car before we ever got out of the car and said, "Oh God", words to this effect, "Oh Lord, help us not to disturb this young man if he's a saved Jew. Help us to be ahead and encourage him in dealing in the things of God. Give us wisdom, us love, courage, that we may contend only for the faith."

Shall we stand and ... yes?  Yes.

(comment from audience)      ?

I believe so.

(continued comment from audience)

Please one other word. Remember that I said in the beginning that the only thing in sody pop that'll slake your thirst was the water. The only thing in them, that in beer that'll slake your thirst is the water. The only thing in the Methodist organization that could ever slake the thirst of a, of a thirsty soul is whatever of the gospel of Jesus Christ is in the man-made organization. And the same with the Baptist and the Presbyterian.

So don't forget I haven't faintly hinted that there's none of God's truth to he found in this, that, or the other sect, but it belongs only to the Lord. And that .., there's nobody got any right to take it over here and can it and label it Methodist or Baptist or Presbyterian. You don't find that in the Word of God except to be condemned. And we're endeavoring to gather with the Lord Jesus. I hope everyone of us here, we should be anyway.

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